Nicole: Welcome to Modern Anarchy, the podcast exploring sex, relationships, and liberation. I'm your host, Nicole. On today's episode, we have professional dominatrix mistress wild iris Join us for a conversation about exploring our psyches through BDSM and fantasy. Together we talk about confronting your shadow in play, the power of the priestess archetype, and surrendering to the keys of your erotic liberation.
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Modern Anarchy.
And if you're new here, welcome. You are joining thousands of pleasure activists around the world who are challenging the status quo. Today's episode was such a joy to make. I know I have talked about the work that I do with psychedelic integration therapy, but y'all, I have also really enjoyed providing space for kink and BDSM integration.
Just like psychedelics, you can have these profound, powerful experiences that unlock parts of your psyche maybe you've never confronted before. And so I have so thoroughly enjoyed my work with clients who are unpacking what that BDSM scene brought out of them. And I've also worked with so many women in particular that want to step into their inner dominatrix, who come to me saying, I want this empowerment.
I want this type of play. How do I get there? And so today's conversation was inspired by the client work that I have been doing with the pleasure practice. And I am so excited to have this really special resource for you that I created with Mistress Wilde Iris on Unlocking Your Inner Diamonatrix. And I really loved what she shared at the end of the episode.
Keep coming back to your fantasies. And what are you drawn to, dear listener? Sexuality, eroticism, it's all about play. And when you think about that play What is it that excites you? And how can we get you closer to that dream? I hope today's episode is one resource that will help you do so. And with that, dear listener, know that I am sending you all of my love, and I will Let's tune into today's episode.
So then the first question I like to ask each guest is, how would you introduce yourself to the listeners?
Mistress Wild Iris: Thank you, Nicole. My name is Mistress Wild Iris. I am a professional dominatrix in the Bay Area and internationally, and I facilitate catharsis for my clients. I lead them through transformational experiences and utilize BDSM fantasy and fetish experiences deepen the understanding of self.
Nicole: I'm excited.
Mistress Wild Iris: My main goal is to help people align with source and to be in their power and to really submit to source. And that's spirituality is a major part of my, my life and my practice and getting to utilize that with people who are often unexpecting, not expecting that, but very much shocked by the potency of what that can do.
Provide is a beautiful experience.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I almost want to ask the very easy simple question of what is source?
Mistress Wild Iris: Uh, source is the, to me, it's the uniting factor of all things. It's the creation. It's the destruction. It's Some might call it, uh, universal energy, some might call it God, some might call it creator.
It's, it's whatever is that higher power that speaks through us and lives through everyone, connects all beings and to come into, uh, alignment with the direction of source is a, it's a lifelong path and it's the ultimate surrender to surrender to that highest wisdom that is always available to us, but we can so easily overpower it with our delightful egos and our, our, our knowing ways of, uh, of just charging forward and not always listening.
So for me, I cultivate softness with my clients so that they can. hear that voice speak with them and move through whatever burdens or roadblocks they've set up that get in the way of that.
Nicole: Sure, sure, sure, sure. So, you know, say I was a client reaching out to you, take me through your process. Like, where do you start me?
What are the questions you're asking me? And how does this journey begin?
Mistress Wild Iris: Sure. So to start, it's very simple. I want to know what people want to get into, what kind of activities they want to explore and what their intention is. And oftentimes people don't really know. They just know that they want to experience surrender, whether they've seen it in porn or they've read about it in books, or they've just always known that they were turned on by seeing a powerful woman.
And they come to me, and they tell me what they're interested in, and we go through a little verification process. And then meet up. And then when I'm in person, I really get a sense of who they are. I feel they're the imprint of what they, what makes them tick, what they're not allowing themselves to surrender to, what they're really pushing against constantly.
And I set up our play to confront that and to it. Exaggerate that and I become this exaggerated force for them, whatever it is that they are most afraid of what they most yearn for, I become this archetype of potency for them. And that's the DS dynamic, the dominant submissive dynamic. And we navigate through a scene that's anywhere from an hour to a week and explore this and it will vary by the person.
Some people it's, it's much more verbal. Some people it's totally silent, but it's wildly energetic. Yeah, it's, it's obviously highly tailored to the person and what they, need. And some people, they run away because it's too scary for them. And that is fascinating because they still yearn for it and they come back.
And there's this, there's this, uh, this cultivation for me, this cultivation of knowingness that is really interesting and entrusting of the silent moments. And whenever it seems like we've hit a wall, you And they don't, like, it's not clear how to continue. I quiet down and I perform my own surrender, which is just to listen to the voice speaking within me about what to do.
When we do that, it's, uh, it's an amazing experience. Yeah, it varies completely by person, which is, you know, The beauty of it.
Nicole: Sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Which is leading me through a couple of different thoughts. And my first thought is like, could you provide an example of some type of play and way that you've taken someone through that journey to understanding more of themselves?
I'd be curious to hear about it. Or if you want to probe through my own psyche, I'm willing to share mine and you could do it a little bit here, but I'll open the door up to whatever feels, you know, more appropriate. Bye. All right.
Mistress Wild Iris: Sure. Well, there's been an experience of reoccurring experience that I've had in the last maybe six months that has not just been with one client, so I feel more comfortable talking about it.
It's been a pattern where a client will at the beginning of the session or beforehand tell me that they've been feeling really depressed and that everything is sedated and they've been either considering getting on antidepressants or they're on them or they just talk about how sad they are and how stagnant everything is or how overwhelmed they are.
And yeah, and that they want shock. They want to be surprised. There's something about the surprise that that really it thrills them. And so I take them through a scene that's very slow. It's very sensual. It's very soft, touch oriented. It's a nervous system soothing experience, whether that's with just my hands caressing them or using implements to just really get them into a soft, relaxed, slow state. Sometimes I'll be talking with them about softening their bodies and doing body scans and noticing where they're holding tension and softening that. We'll be working on their breath, just really getting into a rhythmic, softened state.
And then slowly we start to bring in edge play. At the same time as maintaining a focus on softening, I tell them that their mind is a servant of their heart and that accordingly that their mind belongs to me and that I want their mind to scan their body continuously in any time. They notice tension to soften it. And so this is easy, while it's nice, gentle touch, of course. But as soon as it becomes edge play, whether that's playing with knives, or needles, or electricity, or claws, or slapping, or CBT, or literally anything that is alarming to them, that surprises them, to an extreme edge, it becomes more difficult to stay soft.
Almost impossible, because the nervous system will spike. Right. And so as it spikes, I have them keep their mind focused on softening the body.
So they're staying in the soft, soft mode and the, then we're bringing in this edge plane softening and edge plane, stronger edge plane softening and stronger and softening and stronger.
And it's these, this, uh, rhythmic spiking and softening that ultimately leads their nervous system into a recent. And time and again, their bodies enter a trembling state, uncontrollable trembling, that lasts maybe 10, 20, 30, even longer, minutes. And it's their whole nervous system entering, uh, recalibration.
It's so, it's so interesting. I'll, I'll, sometimes I'll be quiet during this process and sometimes I'll talk with them. And when I've talked with them, either during the scene or afterwards, they often will say that during the state of trembling, they are at this door of, uh, seeing what it was that they're blocking themselves off to.
And if depression is, a freeze state. It's the state where we stop living and become completely stagnant. It's this freeze and we have blocked ourselves off from living. So whether it was some grief that we didn't allow ourselves to experience, or some yearning for the wildness that we cut ourselves off from because it got too dangerous at a certain point in our lives, they come, they come up against that door and realize what the key to their liberation is.
And there enters choice. Do they want to seize that, live through the grief? Do they want to embrace the wildness into the life again and figure out how 20 years after they initially cut it off, they're going to be able to integrate that in a healthy way? Because, you know, now you're an adult and it's very different than when you're 18 and you got a lot of trouble.
The whole, while their nervous system is in this like literally like full body tremors and it's a massive catharsis, this beautiful realization moment of what's possible and wherein lies life. And so, at a certain point, we come to an end with the session and I really help them become soothed again because as you can imagine, it's electric.
Yeah. It's incredibly beautiful. And it's something that, uh, can be very alarming and confronting to realize that, Oh my God, I actually can regain my life. And while it might be like, Oh, of course, then it's easy. Just go and you do that again. It's like, well, no, there's a reason that we blocked it off. It was unsafe at a certain time.
That's what we then can work through in the next session or that they can take and they can just embody if they know how to do it. That's been probably the most interesting learning that I've had in the last while. It's been incredibly beautiful to facilitate those opening experiences with people. And it's actually like, it's so common.
It's so common. It's so beautiful. And it's very tailorable to anybody that is okay with both some kind of edge play and some kind of sensual play and alternative ways of looking at things. Has the ability to calm their body enough to listen to their to what's coming up for them. Yeah, it's incredibly beautiful
Nicole: Yeah, so so powerful.
Thank you for sharing that. Mm hmm I mean, I feel like I could unpack that for like a whole lifetime of career Pretty cool. Yeah It was immediately for me sparking a lot of the work that I do as, you know, a therapist that incorporates the somatic, right? Trying to get people to connect back to their bodies when they're processing things and the importance of mindfulness with that, right?
To live like a full life and being connected to the body in those moments. And then also reminded me a lot, you know, We know animals when they're stressed out, they'll shake, right? They have that full body release that I think often are like humans in our social context are like, I can't shake like that.
That'd be weird. But it's, it's truly what animals do when they have those heightened states of stress and we know the body keeps the score, right? So that's in there. And It also reminds me a lot of my work with psychedelic assisted therapy, right? We've had clients go into psychedelic experiences and have that shake, that tremor of the body in that state too, right?
Wow, interesting. Yeah, and processing like what was coming up in there, you know, another stressor, like a drug, right? You know, breaking the body open to actually have that release. So I see so many parallels here in the practices.
Mistress Wild Iris: Oh, totally. Yeah. It's BDSM. It's really, it's just a tool and how you want to wield it is up to you.
The potential of it as a, a healing modality is tricky because I, while I'm trained as an herbalist, I'm not trained as a psychologist. And so keeping all of the, Understanding about how to work with people in a clinical way, when it can also just be fun. Totally. Totally. You can, I don't, we don't want to take on too much that is with outside of my wheelhouse.
And so that's, that's an interesting thing, but it's incredible somatic practice and potential for healing and potential for catharsis. It is a powerful tool. Just, it's really important to be on the same page with client and practitioner, whoever they are, about what they're wanting to undergo. Because a lot of obedient doms don't want to be healers.
There's, there's a lot of explosive talk about that online. Like, we're not here to heal you. We're here to have fun. And then there's other people that are like, this is super healing experience. Like, this is amazing. It's so healing. It's so powerful. And it's really just what, what is the intention? What do people want to go through?
And what do they want to experience? That's the most, that's the most important convergence point.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Like you said at the beginning, right? What's your intention?
Mistress Wild Iris: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Very important. Yeah. Yeah. Because people come to a therapist for healing. It's usually not just to shoot the shit.
And that's, that's a beautiful thing and that's a strong intention and my practice is not all that. It's definitely a huge host but the healing intention is big on my top kinks. Totally. Big on my priority list.
Nicole: Totally. And play is healing, right? Play is healing. That's what I will pin my point at that.
Totally. It's so healing, right? It's so healing. Totally. Yes. And as you were talking too about that building, it was reminding me of some of like Emily Nagoski's recent work on like having some of the like most powerful orgasms with that edge play, right? Of like building up the tension and then she says to let it go back and build up the tension a little bit more and let it go back.
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm seeing that convergence. to here, right? In the ways of working with the body to build that tension, like, oh, build, go, build, go. So powerful.
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah. That tease. That tease is such a powerful underrated tool, but it's very powerful.
Nicole: Yeah. And I'm curious too, you mentioned like the archetype, you know, I think there's a lot there to unpack.
What's going on with, you know, I know you talked a little bit about this before we started, you know, like separating yourself from the experience or coming in as a certain maybe archetype, like, how does that unfold for you? Mm hmm.
Mistress Wild Iris: Well, the scene is all about a container, and it's the, uh, Lead up to it.
It's, uh, okay. Sorry. I love your black cat and your black cat mug. Oh my God.
Nicole: Amazing. Yeah. Isn't it cute? Yeah. It even has a little cat inside the tea. There's a little cat in there. It's adorable. Great.
Mistress Wild Iris: That's awesome. Okay. Shoot. How do I begin this again?
Nicole: The archetype. Yeah. The archetype is in the scene.
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah. So the container of the scene is what makes the potency and what we can can create within this is determined by how we want to play.
Who is it that I can be for this person so that they can melt into their most gushy, receptive, submissive, soft self? And that's going to change by the person. But overall, there's an archetype of priestess. Yeah, that encompasses what it is that I love to do. And I love to hold the space of a temple where people can come and be in a devotion to the divine.
And it's the divine within themselves, it's the divine that surrounds them, it's the divine as embodied by me, and really allow themselves to be electric in this space and be receptive. And I choose that because it first it's what inspired me in the first place, I realized that I wanted to be a dominatrix.
Uh, about eight years, eight and a half years ago, I was taking a nap and I was thinking of a friend who was so stressed and his hair was falling out. He had alopecia areata and he tried to go, go to see a local healer and kind of clicked for a little bit, but not didn't really get hold. And I was just thinking of him as I was, as I was napping and just wondering how how he could really be held and seen in the way that would work for him. And this voice said to me in, in my mind, be a herbalist dominatrix and to combine the two of them as, uh, somebody that can really get into the crevices of the psyche and see, see what it is that is the block. And then speak super clear, straight to the heart and loop in the entire body.
I had toyed for years with being a doctor or a therapist and didn't know of any modality at the time that would help me just really play with people and like use my hands and have like what only the boundaries that were set up by me and that person. And I realized that being a dom, somebody that's kind of on the outskirts of society, they are not governed by anybody, no regulating body, except, of course, the legislative regulating body, and I That it's a, it's a consensual agreement.
What, what do those two people want to do? And so you can go as far as you want to go in a way that works for the two of you in a way that is safe and sane and healthy. So I entered my work with a yearning to help. facilitate catharsis and to facilitate knowing so that we could become in alignment with our highest selves.
And over the years, it's become clear that it's not the role of a healer that I'm so interested in. Um, there's a lot of baggage that can come in my industry with that taking on way too much for people that I have absolutely no interest in taking on. I really want people to be. Very self responsible.
Yeah, that's very important. But to come to a seer and somebody that can really feel them and understand the nuance of what's going on and help with alignment facility alignment by showing them what it's like to be held truly held and to belong and to be accepted. And to be teased in the ways that help them feel that way, or slapped around in the ways that help them really let go of their egos that say, don't slap me around.
And to, yeah, to just to really find that sense of belonging, both in the context of our, Connection and also just within themselves of accepting the parts of themselves that they might have rejected beforehand for whatever reason, and then to allow them to evolve, because sometimes what we accept, we don't want to stick with.
We don't need to stick with it just because we can appreciate it. Usually we want to evolve. Years ago, I went to Scotland and stayed on an island and was given a cow bone by a man that lived there. And he told me that this was from one of the ancient caves that was dedicated to the goddess Bridget. And that for centuries, women would live in these caves.
They would tend the caves or they would come to them and tend them. And people would bring offerings to the goddess, to the goddess Bridget, whether it was a bone or some kind of a metal or any kind of offering. And that they would come and they would ask for the blessing and they would maybe give the body of a loved one and she would process it and that these temples where we can go see somebody that can hold us in the divine feminine are very rare these days.
We don't really have, we have some, but it's not a common thing. And for somebody to be able to come to somebody who is embodying the divine feminine and doing any work that's needed to work through the toxic femininity that we all have, that I have, that they can come and be held by that and really learn what that can look like and, and then incorporate that in whatever way works for them and move forward and integrate that and It's a beautiful thing.
It's one of my callings here, and I, I love it.
Nicole: Yeah. Sign me up. Where do we go? So powerful. Right? So, so powerful. How? I mean, oh, yeah, there's so many ways that we all want to be held like that, like, oh, like just to be held. Um, and to be able to let go. And obviously that's a really scary place for a lot of different reasons for people, but to be able to actually let go and be held in that power is so sacred.
And how do you find out that about the person? Like, what are the questions you're asking? I think I'm thinking about for myself. When I'm playing with people, how could I facilitate this space? Like what are the questions I would need to know to learn about someone's psyche in that way?
Mistress Wild Iris: Hmm. That's interesting.
I would ask, what do you yearn for?
Mm and some people know that of course, and others have no idea. But I think a lot of people know that they yearn to be held. Mm-Hmm. And yearn to just let go. It's in the response to these questions that. I can see if they are, how they're holding themselves. I think it's actually also just a lot of observation of their physicality and how they're holding themselves around me and if they're super tense or if they're chattering nonstop.
As far as questions, because it's helpful to leave an interview a quick with tools, I would ask somebody, what do you yearn for and how can I hold you?
Hmm. What would you like to feel during our time together?
Yeah. And maybe they don't know. And so I could give them some follow up examples like, do you want to feel cherished?
Do you want to feel overwhelmed? Do you want to feel vulnerable? Also, how do you want to feel is a lot more indicative usually than what do you want to do. Activities are just tools to get to that how do you want to feel. And if somebody is able to, if you're able to evoke a sense, usually it's a feeling that we yearn for, and activities are ways to potentially get there, but not necessarily it.
I think I just in general assume that if somebody's coming to see me, I've Femdom than they want to feel held, unless they say that they just want to feel like a total object, right? And then it's the opposite. They want to feel like they are completely anonymous. Maybe it's somebody that has way too much notoriety or power or people are doting on them and they just want to feel like they are A speck.
They just blend in with the surroundings. And usually at, at some point in the session, they'll also want to feel held, whether it's in the aftercare or just in the overall psyche of how, how we relate to each other.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That balance, right. If you have that power there to have that flip, so then that you can have that more integrated sense of self, if you're not balanced in the outside world.
Totally. Yeah. We're always striving for balance. Uh huh. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah. So being able to ask then those questions to find out where maybe the imbalance lies or what sort of experience they're craving, right? Like you said, the actions are ways to get to that level of felt sense. Mm hmm. And yeah. Even with that all being said, right, the reality is if you come into that space of I don't know how to do this, ah, you know, like you're not going to be able to create the container.
So I'm curious, right? I'm curious for you, like, what was that journey like? Was it always just like, hell yeah, I got this? Or did it take some steps? Like, how did that unfold for you?
Mistress Wild Iris: Oh, yeah, I had to I had to decondition a lot of what I had known about femininity and about power and about just about what it looks like to be strong and clear and that it's not actually being overbearing or harsh with people or demanding.
It's not my style. My style is like, this has been a very much a self learning experience of realizing that my power is Clarity, strength, love, grandeur, and being my full grand self. And that doesn't mean that, that I need to put people, I don't need to put people in their place, typically, unless they really want that.
And then if they do, I probably am not going to like it because I want people, I want to connect with people that are kind. And that want to soften and they don't need to be like drilled into softening, maybe like teased. That's fun. But somebody that needs to be broken, verbally broken. It's just, it's not what works for me.
I don't feel like I got to a higher place in our time together, and it's just not the archetype that works for me.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Which takes deconstruction, right? Yeah. Because I think that's something that I've held a lot of too, of like, you know, being degrading or these other sorts of things might not feel as, you know, accessible or the, like you said, the highest evolution, right, for myself.
So being able to know that there's another side to that I think is an important part of the conversation.
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah, and things that I don't feel comfortable doing. That's just not my wheelhouse and whether whether because I just don't understand it. Like there's a long time that I didn't understand why degradation could be powerful.
It just didn't click. And then it finally did
it's like, oh, people want this because they are doing that to themselves every day and they want to externalize it and let it go. It still doesn't feel good to me. I still don't like engaging in it. I don't, I don't enjoy seeing people in that psyche and whether that's, that could be a profoundly healing experience for them, but it, it often leads to some kind of a power grab at the end because they have just lost themselves so much and maybe, maybe enjoyed it so much.
But it. There's a very delicate amount to go, like how much to give them. Yeah. There's a Paris also said that the dose makes the medicine or the poison. The difference between the a medicine and a poison is the dose.
Mm-Hmm. .And that's very strongly apparent in this work because it is such, it's so intense.
Mm-Hmm. . And so it really relies on us having a connection that I can sense just energetically watch their body, of course, note for signs of any kind of weakening that's beyond just softening and. that is actually indicative of, like, a psyche, like, not being in a healthy place. And make sure that we're riding that edge, but we don't cross it.
We don't want any, like, to go too far. It's hard to, it's hard. You don't want this to be a traumatic experience. Even though one of the primary rules of playing with BDSM is that if we do cross the line, we need to speak it as quickly as we can so that we can repair. And that there's an understanding by both parties that if we do cross the line, it's not personal.
We need to fix it as quickly as possible, but it's, it's a potential hazard of being in the play. Yeah. Absolutely.
Nicole: And, and it's almost like you don't know until you've crossed it, right? And then, and then you suddenly very much so know, and a lot of people I've heard, you know, have that subsequent feeling of like, Oh no, like I don't want to ruin the play and the dynamics.
So I'm curious if you'd want to speak to that person about that.
Mistress Wild Iris: Definitely. Yeah. This is an interesting question. So slowness is your best friend and holding dynamic tension in the midst of not knowing and allowing the emotions just to flow in whatever is happening without continuing any physical play.
It's a powerful way to continue the dynamic, the power dynamic that you set up. If, say you, you hurt somebody and they yell out and they fall to the floor, you don't have to go and immediately mother them. They probably don't want to be mothered. They are going through their own process. And unless they, like, yell, I need a hug, or, you know, That they need something in particular, and you can always ask, is there anything that you need right now?
Stay in the dynamic, don't resort to mothering. I know this is not a thing for everybody, but it has been a thing for me. And allow somebody the dignity of going through their chaos. Just being there in the way that you agreed upon ahead of time. So if we know at the beginning, at the onset of the session, that we're going to engage in edge play.
This is only really applicable with edge play scenarios. Right. That I will ask them, how do you want me to be there? What would be the best way for me to be there for you if you yellow? Or if you get to that edge where you are having some kind of a breakdown or breakthrough? Because I don't want to stop the play.
Unless you read, which means to stop. I want to Get there. I want to get to that cathartic moment. I want to you to get what you yearned for to have the crying Sobbing mess that you needed because you saw something in a new way I don't want to stop that by coming in and helping you feel better We're not often allowed to just be our full, yucky, like messy self in front of people that we love.
It's wonderful to be comforted and I think that there's a certain point where comforting and connecting is a beautiful, beautiful thing. But that is aftercare. And that is maybe even as the session is, that's as the session is coming to its close, making sure that the person is all both and back together.
It's our responsibility to make sure that people leave our time together, woven and strong, if not stronger than they were beforehand, allowing people to do that. And if you don't know what to do, as somebody is breaking through or being harsh or being in feeling like feeling very harsh and within themselves, I would maybe gently touch them.
Either that or just witness And be slow. Breathe steadily. Maybe remind them to breathe if it seems like they're hyperventilating. If they're super dysregulated, then maybe step in after a little bit and just say, it's, let's breathe together. And you actually breathe the deep breathing with them. Breath is a really powerful way to facilitate the whole scene.
If you can breathe in unison, that's great. And the dog can imitate the breath of the submissive. That is a beautiful way for the submissive to feel really held. Just allowing them to go through their breakthrough and know that if if they need you at any point that you're right there and ask them ahead of time what they might need because maybe they'll know and maybe they'll be like I have no idea and at that point just give them what you think is is necessary but don't enter caregiving mode.
It's you in that archetype that brought them there and you don't want to snap out of it. That is the gold.
Nicole: Just hold, yeah, hold the container in the way that it's been that got them there, right? Yeah. Unless it's like mommy play. Sure. Right. Then we're in a different container. Yeah. A very different container.
Totally. Yeah. And for me, it's in like, I just, I think maybe because of my positionality in the psychedelic assisted therapy work, like I'm just hearing the combos here of the ways. Yeah. And the ways that like, you know, before you go into the psychedelic experience, we'll have that conversation around, you know, what does touch look like?
Right. What do all these things look like? What does support look like? Um, do you want a handheld, right. And it reminds me a lot of the yellow red, right. Or do you have a hand signal to signal or. Some sort of other body movement. Cause if you can't speak in that moment of all the emotions, you know, how are you going to communicate to me that I can know that and the amount of times that I've been with clients who have gone into the psychedelic experience and they start to sob profoundly.
And my inner desire is to just console them and be like, Oh, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. But you have to understand that that is part of their process. And where they're going. So then I have to sit back and eventually at some point, I'll just gently be like, are you doing okay? Do you need any support?
And they're like, yeah, I'm fine. You know? And then I just let them keep sobbing. I'm like, cool. Good. Good. Yeah. So it's like part of like, you know, so many, I think, and maybe part of that is our, you know, own discomfort with emotions, right? We see something else in there and we're like, Oh no. You know? And it's like, Nope, that is part of the process.
It's part of the healing process. They know that we're there for them, right? But allowing them to actually go there is part of the healing journey.
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, I love that. That's the parallels are amazing. Uncanny. I know. It is so interesting how that is a strong desire to help them feel better and that's not that's not the way to do it.
That's the way as that's a very shortcut, but we're not gonna we're gonna avoid everything that we wanted to go in there for.
Nicole: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think this conversation is so powerful for a multitude of reasons when we look back on like the history of women's sexuality and empowerment, etc, etc.
There's just so much here. And so I'm thinking, you know, a little bit more about what you had said to be Yeah. I don't know if I want to say soft power, does that feel accurate as the word or is that?
Mistress Wild Iris: About which thing? I'm sorry.
Nicole: Like the ways that you were talking about how degradation isn't the, what feels like your wheelhouse and the other ways that you play with power.
I feel like maybe soft isn't the right word to describe that, but the other ways that you're playing with power, I'd be curious if you could even flesh that out a little deeper because I, I just imagine, you know, there's So many women out there that wanna step into that type of power. Mm-Hmm. . And also don't have, you know, a sort of map of like, what does that look like?
How do, how do I do that? And I know we've been Mm-Hmm. fleshing that out through this conversation, you know, but a little bit deeper of like how you actually hold that power. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. .
Mistress Wild Iris: Interesting. Well, yeah. Finding archetype role models that really get you off, that you look at and you're like, damn, that is a beautiful woman. That is a beautiful, powerful way that she just navigates with grace and excellence. You know, some people will really look up to women that are, or to doms that are just nasty. It's really, it's whatever, whatever turns you on, whatever excites you, whatever energy or expression, expressiveness flows from you.
brilliantly through you where you feel like lit and strong and better afterwards. It's kind of like food, you know, we have these desires for food, but will also help you feel better afterwards. There's the during eating experience, and there's the after eating experience. And you want to Make sure as much as possible that conscious, conscious eating and conscious doming is about feeling good about the whole experience.
So yeah, find maybe who in movies do you just look and you're like, damn, I'm kind of jealous of that woman and how she holds herself. Right. Jealousy is such an epic way of seeing what we want. Yes, it's beautiful. It's powerful. And guess what? You, maybe you can have it. You just have it in your own beautiful way.
The experience of excellence of what feels like strength. I've, I've had so many powerful women that I've known in many different realms of my life, and I can look to them about how they issue directives. To people, to their partners, to their children, to their community and learn from that. Yes, it's in the BDSM scene, but if you, when we start imitating people within this sphere, it gets pretty weird pretty quickly.
Like there's a lot of just distortions of power where we're just imitating toxic masculinity and it's not actually, or toxic femininity. And it's like, it's just toxicity. It's where we're not actually, where we're imitating something that Is a trauma expression and we don't need to do that. That's not going to leave us feeling super embodied or super connected or like we really fulfilled our mission here or a purpose or like we really facilitated something great with a capital G something so meaningful and look to the women.
Who you really respect and see how they compose themselves, see how they hold themselves, how they hold their posture when they're doing. And just try imitating it, try imitating exactly what you see, and then making it your own. Because it's that imitation. Especially when we, if we didn't have role models like that growing up then, or we didn't know people that were imit that were doing that kind of power exhibition, then we might not know how to do that in ourselves and imitation.
That's how kids learn. You say a word to a kid and they repeat it back exactly like you said it, and they then they repeat it in 10 bizarre ways and then they might remember that word and integrate it in their own way. Kids will imitate. Every little thing. And we don't think it's weird. We just think it's like, oh, that's the kid learning.
But when adults imitate, we're like, oh, they're copying. Right. I need to be creative. Like, when you don't know how to do something, you follow a recipe. Yeah. And then eventually, you learn how to make it on your own. And so, yeah, just look to the women that are powerful, that you find as powerful and beautiful and imitate them.
Don't publish it as your own work when you're imitating. Don't sell it as your own work when you're immediately copying somebody. That's super tacky. And if you do, give them all the credit in the world, but eventually you'll be able to make it your own.
And that's, it's just with enough repetition that we learn how to do something on our own.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. We're social creatures. We're always looking to the outside world of like, how do I show up? What is normal? Quote unquote. Right. And that's how we form our sense of self. And so it makes sense to be able to look to role models, which is. Well, I feel like this conversation is so powerful and important because, right, because of patriarchy, et cetera, et cetera, we haven't had a lot of those.
So dominatrix in that way and, and open up these topics, I think is so needed. Because we don't have them. And so yeah, like you said, looking to characters and films or other things. And I know there's a lot of discussion about like, Oh, is it a role play? Am I tapping into something within myself? Right. And, and that question of whether it's actually something that's within, within me or this like costume that I'm putting on, I feel like is the next question I get from a lot of people.
Mistress Wild Iris: Interesting. Well, perhaps initially it will feel like something that is not. Yours, but do it enough and it becomes you. You, yeah, is a part of you that is evoked and it might start as an echo or a shadow, but it's something that will become so much more comfortable over time. And then it's something that you can just step into like that.
I mean, we have so many characters within us. Right. There, there, there's a powerful boss woman in everybody. Yeah. I know it's in everybody. And there's a submissive little puddle. In everybody. Yeah. Yes, there is. And that's a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing. And different situations will evoke that.
Nicole: I, yeah, I think I just know so many people who want to and feel like it's untappable. It's impossible. And I think given what we said about society's influence that's there and, and stepping into a new area of people's sexuality, I just, I work with so many women where that's what I'm hearing.
Mistress Wild Iris: Interesting.
Well, in that case, I would recommend setting up a very contained scene. Say that for one hour. You're going to be playing with this person, whoever it is, and these are the outlined roles that you're playing in. Just have it be super defined. Make it like a script that you're playing out. The other person doesn't need to know how scripted it is.
This is a, as you're just getting into it, make it super scripted. This person is in this role. This person, I, they're the submissive. I am the dominant. I want to be sharp. I want to be gentle and I want to be haughty. I want to be a little bit arrogant with this person and I want to just say whatever comes to my mind and we're going to play for only one hour and we're going to do these three activities.
So I'm going to have a little station set up over here, a little station set up over here, and then we're going to finish on the bed doing this activity. So consider what are the three activities that you want to do with somebody. Imagine it in kind of a crescendoing intensity of play. Start very slow.
Start just by getting in connection with this person, helping them soften. Softening It's an invaluable place to start. Just intentionally putting this person at your knees. Imagine yourself sitting on a couch, putting the person at your knees, putting a collar around their neck, telling them that they are for this hour, they are yours and that they can trust and melt and that you really want them to be able to trust and melt as much as possible.
And you know that they're only going to trust insofar as you've earned it and you're going to work to earn it. And you're, you want to be here for them. And to direct them to soften and soften your voice. As you do this, soften your body, soften your breathing, deepen your breathing, and allow yourself just to relax.
Just to take me in, take in my power, take in my dominance, and allow yourself just to soften. 'cause you've already outlined how this scene is gonna go. you know what's going to come next. And so you know how you're going to transition from them kneeling at your feet into doing foot worship or into doing some kind of a pain play, you know, how their hands are going to be against the wall as you flog them, you know, you're going to flog them for 20 minutes.
You're going to start with a very feathery, soft warmup. You're going to get harder and harder and harder. And when it seems like they've really gone through what they needed to go through, because you knew that they wanted to get the flogging, you're not just bringing these activities on somewhere.
Right. Right. Of course. So you know that they wanted to go through something along the lines of pain play or catharsis and intensity play. You know, after 20 minutes, you're going to take them down and just run your nails along their back and bring them back into a really collected, soft, soft state. And their bodies are going to be weaker at this point.
And their minds are going to be hopefully a bit more open. Maybe you're going to give them a golden shower, or maybe you're going to give them jerk off instructions. Or as you sit there in the corner looking at them or like exhibit themselves for you and just feel into how, how open they are for you as they, as they work their magic, you crescendo into the end of the scene and you leave Maybe 10 minutes or so just to, to soothe them, to hold them, to cuddle them.
If it's somebody that you're in a relationship with, you're probably going to want to be together during that aftercare. A lot of my clients are done as soon as they come. And that's a great thing. You know, they go and they have the shower and they're done with their day. And that's a, that is us being in this particular container.
But A lot of people will want aftercare, will want some kind of connection afterwards. Maybe they'll want to sleep. Who knows? And then you can direct them to go take a shower. And when you come out, come out with all your clothes on, and then we're going to go do this. So I like to, to some extent, tell my clients what we're going to be doing at any given time, what we're going to be doing next.
Sometimes I'll just surprise them and I'll just say, we're going to, we're, I'll just pull them into a different room. And Maybe I'll pull them by their ear or by their neck or by their nipple or something like that. And it can be a more silent scene, but sometimes I'll say, go into the bathroom, kneel down and wait for me, knock when you're ready and wait for me.
And I'll, maybe they knocked in there. I'm not coming in because I'm putzing around the house and gathering things and ignoring them. The dominant remembering that the person that is submitting It's actually trying to be as receptive to you as possible is really helpful. They come to you because they want that and remembering for yourself, what will feel good to me right now?
What do they want to experience that I can help facilitate, but also what feels good to me? And a lot of people, when they surrender, they just want to make, they want the dominant to feel good. They want to give to their mistress, and this is their way of giving, of being, of being a puddle for, for them.
It's not just, they're not doing this in isolation. If at any point during this scene, you draw a blank, you're like, I do not know what to do next. Pause, and just maybe stroke them or pause and have them worship your feet and make sure the worship works for you. Make sure it feels good. And if they're going too fast, say, Hey, slow down.
I'm going to show you how I like to be worshipped. Make sure that if they're doing things for you, that it's. actually pleasing you, not just that you're accepting their terrible worship or whatever it is. That's not going to get anyone anywhere. So always remember to pause and slow down and ask for that voice of guidance to come within.
What do I do next? Where, where do I move? What should we do? And follow that. But go slow. Slowness itself is medicine. Slowness and dynamic tension together.
Nicole: Yeah. There's the homework, dear listener, right? There it is right there! Follow the assignment, let me know what happens, right? That was so great. Thank you.
I mean, that's just gives so much like, I feel like creative fodder for people to think about and get into in terms of, Oh, I don't know. What is possible? And it reminds me of any other dynamic with new skills, right? You go slow. It feels a little bit strange at first, and then eventually you're running marathons and you're doing it right.
So I think people just getting past that stage is just embracing the discomfort of that and, and opening yourself up to the unfolding and. In so many ways, all of my work in psychology started in like sexual trauma. That's where all of that started, right? And there's obviously a ton of work to do in that space.
And as you get into deeper healing, right, we're talking about learning to play. And so being able to learn to play, particularly under the trauma of patriarchy and what it has taught for women, I think this is the conversation, right? Is what does it mean to step into your empowerment and be able to play?
And I just, I'm always scratching for more resources to give to clients in that way. So I'm really, really thankful that you just laid out that whole space for them to give them some creative space to start thinking about what's possible for them. Right.
Mistress Wild Iris: Well, one of the, one thing I would love to add to that is playing with role play is Amazing.
It's almost universally adored. And it's a really powerful way to parallel our own lives, to not be in our persona, whoever that is, but to try on something that maybe we think is super hot, but we're not used to. And, um, When selecting an, uh, a role play, I like to go for things where there's a dynamic tension already involved in it, where there's an inherent power exchange, like teacher, student, doctor, client, things that might be taboo for you, um, or mistress of the household and like delivery person, you know, these power dynamics can always be played out in many different ways, but, um, Aligning with somebody, something that has some kind of potential sexual charge, can be incredible and can allow us a lot more freedom of play and freedom of speech than we might have if we're just being like me, Iris, and you, George, or whoever it is.
That we're just, we're kind of still stuck in how we know each other on the everyday basis. But choosing a parallel life, it's a wild way to try on something new. Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah.
Which is funny for me personally, that like, uh, lately what I've been like role playing with, I feel so radical these days that lately I've been like, you know what?
I want to be a stay at home mom with two kids that takes them to church. I'm like, I just want to be a normal, like, normal mom with kids, you know, cause I've, you know, you play in all the radical. I'm like, the other side now feels really radical.
Mistress Wild Iris: Trad wife is pretty hot.
It's definitely hot.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, uh, yeah, there's so many. So much to play. And I think the ability to have these conversations again, I hope it gives listeners hope, right? So many people feel like they're stuck in their relationships and what's possible. But truly, like we're saying, there's a whole world to create where we can suspend disbelief just a moment and step into creating these worlds through play and exploring intimacy and pleasure with people.
It's powerful.
Mistress Wild Iris: It's so powerful.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah.
Mistress Wild Iris: The more that we can enter into this. other dimension of space and leave the normalcy of the world behind, the more we can work out shit. We didn't even know that we were going to work out. It's magical. And just have fun.
Nicole: Exactly.
Mistress Wild Iris: We get stuck on this healing thing, and I definitely can get stuck on the, like, needing to heal this and heal that.
What does it look like just to play? And to enjoy, and to like really relish, and to be in the lusciousness of our bodies together, and not always be fixated on how shitty things are, or how difficult things are, or there's just such this culture of like, and it's also a very, it's a subculture, but this culture that's obsessed with healing, at least imagine that we've arrived, and that we're just on this evolutionary journey.
Nicole: Right. A hundred percent. And it's being further enforced by capitalism and, you know, the field of psychology that everything has to be healing, right? So you're hitting on something that's so important. And I think part of that is shifting the frame, right? Like you were saying, instead of, you know, what do I need to heal?
What do I enjoy playing with? What is expansive for me? And it's really about like changing that frame. Frame of what you're looking for in your thoughts and hence mindfulness, right? When you notice that thought of like, oh, what needs to be healed? Just that awareness of that thought pattern is the enlightenment, right?
Like you can take that step back and say, wow, I'm, I'm falling into those capitalistic structures of healing again. That's okay.
Mistress Wild Iris: I always need something more in order to be my, my fulfilled self.
Nicole: Totally. Right. Or to be an artist, I have to do it professionally and make money from it. Right? Or these different ways.
Right? So the more we can watch those thoughts and then come back to ourselves and say, okay, I'm seeing that. Let me change this frame to, yeah, how do I want to play? What feels expansive? All these different thoughts.
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah. What's joyful.
Nicole: Yeah. And that keeps growing. It's those first couple steps of it that feel uncomfortable, but the more that you do that, the better.
The more that naturally becomes your everyday and the other paradigm starts to feel far and far away, but we'll still come back occasionally. Occasionally. And then you're like, yeah, the society's thick out there. So, you know, it's a practice, right?
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah, something else that's been helpful for me is having just the archetype of Iris.
If you want to play and it's feeling challenging to you to do it as your birth name, who do you want to be? What does she, what do they like to do? What does she like to do? How does she like to dress? Uh, well, how does she like people to be around her? How does she feel uplifted? How does she feel served?
How does she feel devotion? Where does she like to be touched? Where does she not want to be touched? Um, what is she like for aftercare? How does, what kind of experience does she want to create and facilitate for other people? Getting to know that maybe one of 40, but maybe just one archetype that you want to at least It'd be the initial, the foray into this world can be a cool way to play.
And then how does she want to come together with this other person that you want to play with or other people? And how do those two people interact when they come together? Right. Such a good journal prompt.
Nicole: Yeah, listeners.
Mistress Wild Iris: dear diary.
Nicole: Yeah, exactly. Mm, mm, mm. But it's getting that creative muscle flowing.
I had, I released an episode about purity culture and, you know, so much of that is shutting off any level of this capacity. And so it truly is getting that muscle back of creativity in these areas of like what feels good and what is possible when so much of it has been shut off from society. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Thank you. Yeah.
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah. Totally. It requires some flexing. But start with what's fun. Start with what you're really, like, you can't stop thinking about what you're really drawn to.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. It was such a pleasure to have you. Such a pleasure.
Mistress Wild Iris: This has been so fun.
Nicole: Yes. I like to hold space too before I guide my guests towards the closing question in case maybe there was something we didn't hit that you wanted to share with the listeners.
Otherwise I can guide us towards our closing question.
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah. I would, I would just say have fun. Let's keep it simple. Keep it fun. It will evolve. So many different things will come up. Keep coming back to what are your fantasies? What are your fantasies in this moment? What do you yearn for? And what do you want to experience?
And that will draw it to you. That will be a guiding light for you. We are the dreamers. And this is part of us in enacting the dream and allowing it to evolve. So all the best to all the people that love to play.
Nicole: Yes. Keep following your pleasure, dear listener. Yeah. Well, if it feels good, I'll guide us towards that closing question.
Okay. So then the one question that I ask each guest on the show is what is one thing that you wish other people knew was more normal?
Mistress Wild Iris: Yeah. I would say the yearning to just be cherished. It's so normal to just be held in your utmost melted state and to be loved and appreciated and to be found as silly and delightful.
Yeah. To be able to do that in a safe, safe place. and yummy way by somebody that you trust and love and hold dear.
Nicole: It's very normal.
Mistress Wild Iris: Very common.
Nicole: Yeah. And just as normal as wanting to slap that person, right?
Mistress Wild Iris: It's like, yes. And boom. The whole spectrum.
Nicole: Yeah. We hold the whole spectrum. We hold multitudes.
Uh, yeah, it was such a pleasure to have you on the podcast, yeah, truly, truly. Where can people who want to learn more from you, connect with you, find you, where do you want to send them to connect?
Mistress Wild Iris: Sure, yeah, my website is mistresswildiris. com and you can find me on Twitter at MixMXWildIris.
So yeah, thank you for coming on the show. Such a pleasure. Thank you. And I'm here in Silicon Valley for those who want to serve in person. Mm hmm. Woo hoo!
Nicole: Woo hoo! Very fun.
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