246: Becoming an Embodied and Empowered Sex Witch with Ashley Manta

[00:00:00] Dr. Nicole: Welcome to Modern Anarchy, the podcast, exploring sex, relationships, and liberation. I'm your host, Dr. Nicole.

On today's episode, we have Ashley Manta join us for a conversation all about leading with pleasure. Together we talk about orgasming with Lilith, integrating our erotic parts and riding the waves of your pleasure, evolution. Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Modern Anarchy. I am so delighted to have all of you pleasure activists from around the world tuning in for another episode each Wednesday.

My name is Dr. Nicole. I'm a sex and relationship psychotherapist providing that psychedelic assisted psychotherapy, author of the Psychedelic Jealousy Guide and founder of the Pleasure Practice supporting Individuals in crafting expansive sex Lives and in Sumit relationships. Dear listener, I am so excited to be bringing you this episode.

You wanna know why? Well, so five years ago. When I started a podcast, I had my very first episode, which I have not gone back to listen to. You know, it's like reading your old journals. It's like, whoa, who is she? I don't know who she is. Uh, my voice has changed a lot. I was much more scared and quiet to talk about sex than I am now.

And I feel so lucky that that first episode was with an amazing guest, Ashley Manta, and today she is back on the show. And this is the beginning of a, a much longer series of inviting all of my. Favorite sex and relationship experts, activists back onto the show for a round two conversation. And this episode is so powerful as we reflect on Ashley's journey with sexuality and her pleasure, evolution.

And I know there's so much that you're going to resonate with. And one of the things that I continue to hold onto is the invitation to meditate and masturbate for an hour. Okay. For all of us out there who are going five, 10 minutes trying to come as fast as we can, super cool that we can do that. And also, what would it mean to be with our bodies for an hour of pleasure and really savor every moment of that.

And I know the parts of you that are already saying, I don't have time for that. But you know what they say about meditation? They say, if you don't have time, then you should really double it. Right? What are the values of your life if you don't, right? It's a deep, deep question, but hey, it's an invitation.

I'm still learning to integrate from myself, so don't let me think that I'm speaking from some high mountaintop. I really appreciate this invitation to slow down and really be with our bodies and to feel the pleasure that is ever abundant in our nervous system.

Ah, dear listener, if you are ready to liberate your pleasure, you can explore my offerings and free resources@modernanarchypodcast.com. Linked in the show notes below. And dear listener, this is the last week to apply for the Pleasure Liberation Groups. Again, it is only a six person container, and so if you don't get in time, happy to put you on the wait list for next year, but this is a once a year opportunity to do this powerful pleasure based neuroscience curriculum that I've created For all of you pleasure activists out there who are looking to really step into their erotic power, let go of shame and really.

Body, the person, the pleasure activist that you're meant to be. And so, dear listener, if you're interested in joining, I'll have all that linked in the show notes below. And I wanna say the biggest thank you to all my Patreon supporters. You are supporting the long-term sustainability of the podcast, keeping this content free and accessible to all people.

So thank you. And with that, please know that I'm sending you all my love and let's tune in to today's episode,

dear Listener. There's a space already waiting for you where you are invited to let go of every old script about sex and relationships, and begin living a life rooted in your pleasure, empowerment, and deep alignment. I am Dr. Nicole, and this is your invitation to the Pleasure Liberation Groups, a transformative, educational, and deeply immersive experience designed for visionary individuals like you.

Together we'll gather in community to explore desire, expand relational wisdom, and embody the lives we're here to lead. Each session is woven with practices, teachings, and the kind of connection that makes real transformation possible. And I'll be right there with you guiding the process with an embodied curriculum that supports both personal and collective liberation.

This is your invitation into the next chapter of your erotic evolution. Say yes to your pleasure and visit modern anarchy podcast.com/pleasure practice to apply.

And the first question that I ask every guest is, how would you introduce yourself to the listeners?

[00:06:07] Ashley: I would introduce myself as Ashley Manta, certified sexologist. Creator of Can Asexual, which is all about sex and cannabis. Sex and altered states, and a deep lover of life and passionate advocate for pleasure.

[00:06:24] Dr. Nicole: Yes. Amazing. Welcome back. Ah, it's so wild to have you back on the show. As I was mentioning to you earlier, and for all the listeners for context, there's so many people who have start like subscribed since the beginning, right? So they might not know the context that you were the first ever guest on Modern Anarchy.

I'm honored. Ah, it really set the tone for sure, right. Altered states of consciousness. I'd yet to do any of my training in psychedelic assisted psychotherapy, and so it was definitely like priming me towards this world, but still so much of the unknown. So it's such a joy to come back together in this space and get to talk about all this.

Yes. Yeah. Five years later. I know, right? I know. I'm, I'm curious for you, any changes that stand out in those last five years that you'd wanna share with me and the listeners?

[00:07:15] Ashley: I mean really changes on every possible level. I, I lost one of my best friends to cancer in 2022. I left a really toxic, abusive relationship in 2022.

Actually shortly after my best friend passed away. Wow. I moved from California to Texas just this year. Okay. I am dating someone who lives in Canada and am planning to move outta the country next year.

[00:07:46] Dr. Nicole: Wow. Very exciting. Very exciting. And how has your sex life changed through all of this?

[00:07:54] Ashley: It has shifted quite a bit.

First of all, just being in a long distance relationship. Yeah. Um, although we are non-monogamous, I'm picky. Yeah. And I like what I like, and my partner, who's my primary partner, is definitely like. One of the best lovers I've ever had. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So he set a very high bar. Mm. And that makes it really tricky to find local playmates who are up to that level.

[00:08:20] Dr. Nicole: Yes. Which I love that for you. Yeah. Right. Like the bar is up here and if you can't hit that, I'm okay. Right. I've got a dildo. Right. What do I need? I have dildos and toys.

[00:08:29] Ashley: I use my hands a lot more now than I used to. Yeah. But uh, yeah, that has changed a lot. Like I was getting laid a few days a week.

Mm-hmm. Five years ago, and now it's like every couple of months.

[00:08:41] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so I'm curious for you in that transition, what are some of the things you look for in terms of that standard that you have with a playmate or someone that you're connecting with?

[00:08:53] Ashley: The first and most important is consent.

Mm. Someone who really aggressively respects my boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. Celebrates them rather than. Pushing against them.

[00:09:07] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:08] Ashley: Um, someone who has the, the savvy to ask. What I see a lot in the wild, especially with like dates off of dating apps, is guys who think it is completely appropriate to slap, choke and pull hair on the first date with no prior conversations.

[00:09:25] Dr. Nicole: Yes, yes, yes.

[00:09:26] Ashley: That is deeply distressing to me. Yes. It's as a sexuality professional and as a like sexual human.

[00:09:32] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I've had that too. Someone's like, I go on nonverbals and I was like, yeah, yeah. What You're choking maybe don't do that, right? Yeah, yeah. Jarring, jarring, jarring. So how are you gauging that in a first encounter?

I'm so curious. Like, do you ask questions? What is your process?

[00:09:52] Ashley: I ask questions. I will sometimes. In a like non-shaming way. Like I'll sort of share horror stories. I'll be like, yeah, I've run into this a lot and it really turns me off. Like I'm trying to drop breadcrumbs for these guys. And then also like just being very clear that I really like sensuality.

Yeah. I don't like rough, I don't like pain. Those things are not interesting or erotic for me. And even with all of those caveats, I have still run into mostly cis hetero men who just like blow past all of it. Either they weren't listening or didn't care.

[00:10:30] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:10:30] Ashley: And will push on every single one of those stated boundaries.

And I'm just like, okay, I gotta get the fuck outta here.

[00:10:35] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So much work to do under these systems. So much more liberation work to do. Uh, yeah, and I'm grateful that. You were sharing how it's unattractive to you. Right. I feel like there's a time in maybe the healing journey where the mess and the chaos is attractive 'cause we're so on that dopamine escalator, intense NRE concoction of drugs that we get.

Um, and so to come to a space where you feel much more stable and grounded in yourself and in your body, and therefore when you hear that chaos, you're unattracted to it. Oh, yes. Wow. What a healing arc. You know?

[00:11:15] Ashley: It's a huge healing arc. And also I've healed a lot of my relationship with my body. Mm.

[00:11:19] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:11:20] Ashley: And you know, there were past versions of me that were just so happy to have attention. Yeah. That were so happy to be on a date.

[00:11:29] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:11:30] Ashley: That I would go along to get along. I would, people please, I would negate my own boundaries and preferences just because like, well, it's better than nothing. Mm-hmm. And that is very much no longer the case.

[00:11:43] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. I love that. I love that. And I see a lot of that in polyamory with women who raise the standards and 'cause they get more connections. Yes. And they're like, I have great con, I don't need, oh, so the standards keep raising. And so I feel like that's such a beautiful process to be able to keep raising that bar on your treatment.

Right. And being able to make sure that you're in loving mutual relationships.

[00:12:05] Ashley: Absolutely.

[00:12:07] Dr. Nicole: And I remember back to your episode, I had appreciated so much of the vulnerability of your journey, of what brought you into the field of sex and all of this research. And specifically you had named how cannabis was really helpful in terms of unlocking different areas of erotic play in your body.

And also you had named how much you had built this platform and then had experiences where you felt no longer able to enjoy play and cannabis and what it was like for you psychologically to go through that and allow yourself compassion for, uh, the ways that relationships change, whether it's to people or substances, right?

All throughout our lives. And so I'm curious, where are you at with your relationship to Substances in Play for you today?

[00:12:52] Ashley: My relationship has definitely continued to shift and a lot of the shifts in 2020 as a result of my anxiety spiking off the charts and, and cannabis sometimes exacerbating those symptoms?

Yes, yes. Still remain. Mm-hmm. Um, my body is hypersensitive to states of intoxication, and what tends to happen in my brain is my body feels uncomfortable in some way. Either I feel kind of dizzy or my stomach's clenching, or my heart starts beating a little bit faster than I like, and that's when my brain takes off and it's like.

I'm, I'm dying. Something's wrong. Something's Oh my gosh. Run. I know. Run, run, run, run. Yeah. So that kind of takes all of the fun out of whatever I happen to be doing. And so I have steered much more directly into the path of. Non intoxicating ways of interacting with cannabis that are still profoundly helpful for me from an intimacy standpoint.

Mm-hmm. So topicals applying them to my vulva using, um, infused suppositories, either vaginally or anally. Yeah. All of those are wildly helpful for reducing pain with penetration. Increasing sensation and pleasure. Allowing my ass to relax. Yes. Without numbing.

[00:14:09] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Huge. Huge. And so I'm sure there was a big identity shift with that to be Yeah.

Do you wanna say more to that?

[00:14:16] Ashley: Yeah. There was like, I used to pop a 50 milligram edible and get on a plane.

[00:14:21] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, yeah. I'd be like, I can do this.

[00:14:24] Ashley: Yeah. Now it's like, oh, I can do about two and a half milligrams. Mm-hmm. Five feels like a lot. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, okay, that's, I am no longer the girl who will, you know, be at a cannabis event, do a big dab, and then jump on stage and get on on a microphone.

Yeah. Like that used to be me. That is not me these days. Yeah,

[00:14:43] Dr. Nicole: absolutely.

[00:14:44] Ashley: And you know, some of it is hormonal shifts, aging. Sure. Just kind of where my mental health is at any given time. And I've had to really be in a state of acceptance and curiosity. Yeah. With myself and, and non-attachment to who I used to be, what my body used to do, how I used to interact with these various substances.

Because it's been with cannabis and also with MDMA. With LSD, yeah. With mushrooms, like all of it. My tolerance is way, way, way less than it used to be. And. I am much more prone to the more, um, physical discomfort side effects than I used to be. Mm-hmm. And so I'm like, okay, that's, I can be in acceptance with that Yeah.

And not try to fight it, and not try to bend these substances to my will. Right. And just be like, okay, this is where we're at right now.

[00:15:29] Dr. Nicole: Right. Absolutely. Because what's the point? Right. Who are we trying to prove that to? I guess our, our ego. Right. I can do, I resonate a lot with, with this, as you can hear, I'm, I can do this.

I'm the girl who does this. Right. Absolutely. Why am I so anxious? Oh no. Why is this not stopping? Right. And so to be able, like you were saying, to have compassion for yourself and not hold onto the past versions of ourselves and what felt comfortable at that point, I think that's where it's beautiful to acknowledge that our relationships are always gonna change people place, drug, all of it.

Right. And so the more that we can get in movement with that change and just say. I'm here right now and this is what works for me and what doesn't. And I'm, I'm curious for you, given your study of the erotic, I feel like that practice is so deeply connected to embodiment and so the deeper you go into that practice, I imagine the more sensitivity to drugs you feel in general, right?

You're nodding. So I'm curious, how do you see that connection for you?

[00:16:34] Ashley: It's a profound one. Honestly. It's. The more that I'm in touch with my body, the less I'm dissociated from my body, which was my go-to state of being for most of my life. Mm. The less I feel I need high doses of really anything to get my body's attention because I'm much more in my body doesn't take as much to like cross my sphere of awareness.

Sure. Yeah. And that has led to more satisfying sexual encounters. I appreciate subtlety so much more than I used to. Mm-hmm. I appreciate slowness. Yeah. So much more than I used to. Like that, that frenzied feral energy is fun. Sometimes, and sometimes I am in that mood usually when I'm ovulating, but yeah.

Yeah. Outside of that. Mm-hmm. I really want it to be slow and deliberate with a lot of attunement. Yeah. And a lot of energetic play and exploration. That feels infinitely more satisfying to me.

[00:17:33] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:34] Ashley: Today.

[00:17:35] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And that sensitivity, I think about the neuronal pathways, right? And so if you're in a very high stimulus state, you lose sensation to some of those more gentle stimulus, right?

Because those are neuronal pathways. And so I hear you building more connection to your body and therefore more sensitivity, where if we are constantly over flooding it, you kinda lose a bit of that sensitivity. And so finding that balance, you know, there are days where the intensity can be nice and days where the softness, it's not like this stark contrast where one is bad or wrong, it's just being able to find that balance that you stay in flow rather than hitting that tolerance, which we talk about with drugs, right?

Mm-hmm. So it's, it's tolerance of stimulus. So I feel like finding that balance between. Both is so important.

[00:18:21] Ashley: Absolutely. And to bring in another example, vibrators. Yes. I used to be the one with my wee vibe tango right next to my bed. Mm-hmm. That was what I reached for every single time. Yeah. I masturbated like mm-hmm.

And it's, it's still a wonderful toy. I have two large, like under bed storage containers full of toys. Yes, yes. But these days, for the last like pretty much two years, I almost exclusively use my hands.

[00:18:49] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:18:50] Ashley: I do really nice fingers, circles. Yeah. With two fingers. And this is it. This is where I live. Yeah. Wow.

I find that I edge for longer. I'll be like reading an erotic story or sexting with my boyfriend. Yeah. And that allows me to really kind of follow the journey of my arousal rather than just kind of jumping straight to the finish line. 'cause with a vibrator, I can get myself off in less than two minutes, like yeah, bam.

And I love that. But after that, my clip's kind of done. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. She's like, okay, that was fun. Onto the next activity. Whereas when I use my fingers, I can get really close, I can come back, I can have an orgasm or a peak pleasure experience. Wait for a few minutes and then go again.

[00:19:36] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Which is so beautiful.

So I'm hearing the slowness. I imagine that when you first started making that transition, your brain was like, uh, it's been two minutes. Uh uh, uh uh. Yeah. Do you wanna speak to that?

[00:19:53] Ashley: Yeah. Now, I can't imagine for master, I cannot imagine masturbating for less than at least 30 minutes, preferably an hour.

[00:19:59] Dr. Nicole: Wow. Wow. Love that.

[00:20:01] Ashley: Whereas in the past it was like, all right, I'm just gonna rub one out before I go to sleep. And I was lucky enough to be mentored by Dr. Betty Dodson before she passed away. And one of her things in her body sex workshops is that she does an hour of erotic recess. Ugh. And I remember even my first erotic recess in 2017, I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do for an hour?

Right, right, right, right, right. Cool. What do I do for the other 47 minutes? Yes, exactly. Now I get it. Oh, I really. Appreciate. Yeah. Taking the time, giving that time to myself where I'm not distracted by other things, where I'm just focused on my body and my pleasure.

[00:20:41] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:20:42] Ashley: And what is bringing me the most satisfaction in the moment.

And it becomes sort of a meditation.

[00:20:46] Dr. Nicole: Yes. I love it. Yes. Yes. And they always say that, uh, you should meditate for an hour. And for the person who says that they don't have an hour, well, you should meditate for two. Right? Definitely. To really push that if you can't make that time. But I I, wow, there's a lot for me to expand into hear for sure.

Because for me, my masturbation practice has been so deeply connected to my creativity and everything that I create. And so it's the beginning of my ritual before I get into my creative practice. And so what that means for me is like, cool, five minutes, let's go, let's get this out and then run. And so I am inspired by you right now to think, how could I make an hour for this?

My brain is already like, where am I gonna fit that in? How? Right. What is the point? I could get it in five minutes, but I know the point like you're saying, is meditation and it's deepening that embodiment practice to really be there. But oh, my fast type A brain is already. So I love this inspiration here.

Thank you.

[00:21:44] Ashley: You are so welcome.

[00:21:46] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. And so how long did it take for you to get into that practice of enjoying that? How, you know, 'cause that's a journey as I'm pointing to. So how long did it take for you to feel the pleasure in that state?

[00:21:59] Ashley: The pleasure came pretty quickly once I gave my clit a couple days after, you know, daily vibrator use to kind of reset.

Sure. I was amazed at the sensitivity that Yeah. Emerged.

[00:22:10] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:11] Ashley: And, and not to say that vibrators numb you out, they don't, but they just get you acclimated to a certain type of sensation. Mm-hmm. And so then you tend to need similar types of sensation to get a similar result. Yeah. So after a little bit of a reset, a tolerance break, if you will.

[00:22:27] Dr. Nicole: Exactly, exactly.

[00:22:28] Ashley: Yes. I found that with my partner, he is like the Shakespeare of sexting. Mm-hmm. Like he and I will sext for. Hours at a time. Amazing. Like, it's so much fun. Yes. And we'll sort of intermittently like be on FaceTime and seeing each other, and then we'll text for a while and then we'll be doing other things, but still sexting and then send some pictures and then, and having someone who is like, let's keep going.

Let's keep going. How about this? Let's go down this path. Let's do this. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it really helped me to learn how to stretch out the pleasure and to not just like I'm masturbating to orgasm. Yeah. As opposed to I am touching my body for pleasure and like pleasure's gonna swell and pleasure's gonna ebb and that's okay.

[00:23:21] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so learning to, it's that cliche, right? It's not the destination, it's the journey. Yes. They're cliches for a reason, right? They a lot, they're a truth in them. Uh, and so I, I imagine that that also translates to more pleasure outside of that moment, right? It's like the psychedelic, you have that experience and it becomes a template for your outside world.

You have that expanded state of consciousness with pleasure and touching yourself in solo play, and that becomes a template for the level of sensation you can feel outside of the world as well. Absolutely. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm curious for you, the spiritual piece is, I remember you talking about being a witch.

I'm curious where that ties into sex for you

[00:24:12] Ashley: intimately.

[00:24:13] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. I'm curious about it.

[00:24:14] Ashley: Uh, pun intended. Mm-hmm. So I am a witch. More than anything I identify as a sex witch. Mm-hmm. Because a lot of my magical practices, devotions and rituals are intimacy linked, if not intimacy derived.

[00:24:29] Dr. Nicole: Yep.

[00:24:30] Ashley: And I do devotion to the Dark Goddess Lilith, who, for those who are unfamiliar, uh, as the story goes, was Adam's first wife before Eve and was cast out of the garden because she refused to submit herself to Adam.

Yes, yes. And she was like, no, fuck you we're equals. And I kind of love that. Yes. And so she very much embodies like the Sacred Who archetype and the woman who is completely comfortable with her sexual embodiment and empowered by her sexual power and. That works really great for me. So I will offer her my menstrual blood.

I will dedicate my orgasms to her. I have a statue of her in the corner of my room and like amazing at the moment of my orgasm, I will sort of like reach my hand out and just like send that right to her and I'm like, please continue blessing me in ways that are unexpected and delightful. Thank you so much.

[00:25:26] Dr. Nicole: Yes. Yes. Oh, so good. I, uh, went to a play party for Halloween this last year and dressed up as Lilith in the full red. I even got some horns. I was like, yes, I'm embodying this. Yes. I'm curious, when you connect with her as the archetype, what sort of expansion are you feeling in your own identity with that?

[00:25:47] Ashley: It's a really wonderful antidote to shame, yes. To connect with Lili energy because she is not about the shame life.

[00:25:54] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:55] Ashley: She is not about playing small, she is not about hiding, she is about delighting in your depravity. Mm-hmm. And embracing decadence. Mm-hmm. Just like all of the carnal desires and pleasures are celebrated.

Yeah. And so I think my devotion to her has helped me accept myself more, be more myself. Not that I was ever shy about talking about my sex life Sure. Or my exploits, but even more so now it comes from a grounded place of mm-hmm. Self-satisfaction and not trying to impress anyone.

[00:26:33] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So the pleasure is for yourself.

Yes. Finding that internal sense of control and pleasure rather than the external. Who am I performing for? Who am I doing this for? Right, exactly. Thats to do and a and a lifelong process As I'm learning every day, what sort of subconscious, uh, patriarchal bullshit is still in my head. Right. Especially in these systems where most people don't know about Lilith and that story.

[00:27:02] Ashley: It's wild how few people are aware. And so, you know, I always recommend following occultists and, and geniuses in that realm. Gabby Hurst is one of my favorite people on Instagram to follow, and she's written several books that I really love. Kristen Sole is another one who wrote, which is Sluts and Feminists.

Oh. And like really getting to see where. Feminine empowerment, sexuality. Yes. Witchcraft. Yes. Fuck the patriarchy. Like how all of those things intertwine.

[00:27:34] Dr. Nicole: Yes. That's amazing. I love the recommendation. Just this last week I was at a bookstore in the spirituality section and looking for that. I was like, where is this?

I know it exists. Where is the book? So I appreciate those recommendations. I'll have to check them out. Yeah. And it's funny because by the way, just for context, I'm looking at my post-it note and there's like, I'm a wild woman, a healer, a sex witch, right? So I, I, I resonate with you, and I know that at the beginning of my journey when I first checked in with you, if you told me that, I would've been like, what?

Which what? What the fuck spiritual bullshit is this? Right, right. And where I'm at now, obviously the poster, you know, a lot has changed and there's so much cultural messaging around that word witch, and especially when you pair it with sex. And my understanding of it is the deep lineage of healers, of, of female healers who were in touch with the herbs and the medicines that were growing in the earth.

[00:28:34] Ashley: I'm curious for you, how do you reclaim that word of witch? I use it wherever possible.

[00:28:40] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:28:41] Ashley: I identify as a witch to pretty much everyone, including now that I'm in the South and like Capital S South down here in Texas. I was curious about that when you said that. Whew. Yeah, it's a time, um. A lot of Christians here.

Lot of Christians. Yes. You know, those are my, which is fine. Like Jesus is cool. Jesus liked sex workers and immigrants. Yes, he did. Like we're rad. Yeah. But Christians Hmm. They're a little bit what my dad used to say. Uh, long on prayer, short on forgiveness. Yes. Those are the people with white Jesus, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. So I will just like pack my tarot cards and my Oracle deck cards and bring them to parties. Yeah, I will. You know, I don't apologize for it. I don't. Oh, here's a new edition since last I saw you. Ooh. The listeners won't be able to see this, but I got a tattoo. Wow. See if I can show it to you.

Oh, just stand up. That'll be easier.

[00:29:32] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Aw, beautiful.

[00:29:35] Ashley: So it is a candle, it's crystals. Yes. It's, um, sage and lavender. It has a pentagram in the middle. Oh. So, so this I am fully flagging

[00:29:48] Dr. Nicole: witch Yes. At all times. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, what does the tattoo mean to you? I'd love to hear the story for you with that.

[00:29:56] Ashley: Yeah, I, well, it's a, a coverup, funny enough. Mm-hmm. So what's covering up is I had survivor tattooed on my wrist, and there came a point last, what, three summers ago now, June of 2022, where I was like, you know what? I am a survivor. I'll always be a survivor, just like this tattoo will always be on my wrist, but that is no longer the cornerstone of my identity, and it's no longer what I wanna lead with in the world.

And so I thought about it, I'm like, what do I want to lead with? Well, crystals, especially the blue crystals that I chose are meant for throat chakra.

[00:30:36] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:37] Ashley: Truth. speaking your truth, which is very much my, my raison detra. The red candle is root chakra and it's also a lot around passion and, um, sex and power and security and safety and all of those things being brought together.

Mm-hmm. Um, there's some orange in the flames, so there's my sacral chakra and yellow for the solar plexus, and like all of those kind of. Chakras aligned and then the green in the plants.

[00:31:08] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:31:08] Ashley: Um, sage to clear out what no longer serves and lavender to chill my ass out because I need that sometimes.

[00:31:16] Dr. Nicole: Oh.

[00:31:16] Ashley: And it's on my left hand um, 'cause left is the feminine, it's the receiving and it's also like the left-hand path is like the witchy Yeah. Path.

[00:31:24] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:31:25] Ashley: And the pentagram was drawn with the energy of fire. Mm. And because I want to bring that kind of fiery, transformative, um, transmuting energy into my life, my work, my sex, everything I'm doing in the world.

And so this really felt like kind of a monument to me. Yes. Into my. My spirit.

[00:31:45] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yes. I'm so glad I asked. I was like, wow, what a, what a story. There. Uh, so much empowerment with that. Quite literally, the, the coverup, the transformation there with that, I, I resonate with that journey of using that as a, the most forward identifier.

And like you said, it's not ignoring that reality at all. It is a part of your story and your history, but is not the thing that you want to lead with. And I think that is a profound distinction there. And how does it feel to share that in this moment with me and to really connect with that journey?

That's, that's a powerful transformation.

[00:32:24] Ashley: It feels really, really powerful too. Own it. Yes. Publicly, like I've talked about it with friends and people close to me, but I don't know if I've actually told that story on a podcast yet.

[00:32:35] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:32:35] Ashley: Thank you for giving me the space because it, it really does represent such a profound shift in how I moved through the world, because when I got the survivor tattoo in 2013, like it was such a key part of my identity.

I talked about it all the time. Yeah. I was deeply immersed in like trauma healing work, both personally and professionally. It was my life on every possible level. Yeah. And now my life is much more about pleasure and embodiment and mm-hmm. Sensuality. Yeah. And decadence and travel. And so I was like, okay, I need something that's gonna update that to reflect who and what I am now.

[00:33:20] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. The whole healing arc, right? Getting to play and pleasure. I feel like that is the full healing arc and it's definitely something I resonate with. You know, originally volunteering with sexual assault survivors, which I know you did too in your history. Mm-hmm. And going into the field specifically wanting to train in that.

And I wanted to work with trauma and trauma and trauma, and then realizing, wow, what is the whole arc here? Where, where are we trying to get to play? Pleasure, embodiment. And actually I wanna lead with those things. Not that we don't work with it and we see it or have experienced ourself, but actually there's a lot of power when you lead with that.

And, um, thinking about the narratives that we tell ourselves about ourselves, if that's what you lead with, right? That is how you see the world through. And so when I, I hear that transformation stepping into so much more empowerment by choosing pleasure as the forward piece for you.

[00:34:16] Ashley: Absolutely. I feel like the world needs more sex positive.

People that are very open about their journeys and yes, I don't wanna say role model 'cause that feels a little bit too prescriptive, but like, I wanna be on somebody's sexual vision board.

[00:34:35] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. I love that for you. That's an amazing way to say that. That's so, so true. I mean, the reality is we're social beings and so we look to other people in terms of what's okay.

And if I'm gonna do this wild thing, it's gonna cast me out of the herd, which is scary in terms of our evolutionary brain that says I must be normal, quote unquote, and in the circle. And so if I don't see anyone demonstrating another circle where all these people get together for a sex ritual to masturbate and solo pleasure together in a circle, and oh, you know, if you can't.

See that world then the idea of doing anything like that feels like it could quite literally cost me my life. I think we don't, unconsciously that's what's going on, right? Is that idea of being cast out and then alone and all of that fear. And so we need people like you, right, people like me who speak to that like you.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And who speak to it and say, yeah, I come and I come hard. You know? And because that's important and to say it with your full body and your voice, it's such a, such a necessary thing.

[00:35:44] Ashley: Yes. I think saying the thing out loud, especially things that challenge the dominant narratives, so one of the reasons I got really good at teaching hand jobs is because I don't like giving blow jobs 'cause I don't like cum in my mouth.

[00:35:55] Dr. Nicole: Mm mm-hmm.

[00:35:56] Ashley: And you know, the dominant narrative is spit or swallow. Yeah. And I'm like, hard pass on both of those. Like, nope, I'm good. I don't love receiving oral. I have had so many people of all genders be like, mm-hmm. Oh, I could just eat pussy for hours. Yeah. I'm like, you know what?

I love that for you. But like, just be very clear that that's for you, not for me. Right.

[00:36:20] Dr. Nicole: Absolutely. And that's the important piece, right? Is how do we dismantle these expectations, the intimacy escalator, all these sorts of scripts of what sex is supposed to look like. That's not how we play, right? That's not how we play.

What feels good for you and your body. And as we've already spoken to, there's so much transformation over that journey, right? Of what resonates with you and the things that resonate today might not be the things that resonate tomorrow. And that's okay. 'cause we're here for that process of constantly being with ourselves and the inevitable flow that is with these pieces.

[00:36:55] Ashley: It's true. Tapping into that flow and becoming aware of cycles and rhythms is crucial, especially for those of us who menstruate and where we are in our cycles and where the hormone levels are. Yeah. And what's going on with our bodies. And then, you know, now as I'm in my last year of my thirties going into my forties, a lot of my friends are in perimenopause and what that looks like and how that impacts their lives and how their bodies respond differently than they did 20 years ago.

Their arousal, their desire is different than it was 20 years ago. And having to. Update those files.

[00:37:29] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:37:30] Ashley: Rather than just be like, with your arms folded, like, well my body used to do this, what the fuck? It's like, okay, well right. Let's be where with where we are today. And you know, whether it's perimenopause or whether it's just like, okay, I'm in luteal right now.

Like, don't breathe near me.

[00:37:46] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's so hard. 'cause who do we have to look to for examples of empowerment and specifically sexual empowerment in older age?

[00:38:00] Ashley: Right. We don't have a ton of people to look to. Uh, Nina Hartley is certainly one, Joan Price, uh, who's a wonderful senior sexuality educator.

But, and, and thankfully as. The crop of educators that I came up with who are, you know, a little bit older than I am, they're, a lot of them are in perimenopause right now. And so they're starting to talk about it much more good than was happening 20 years ago.

[00:38:26] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Yeah. We need that platform to be able to hear that and know what is possible, what sort of things we can expect.

'cause otherwise we're in isolation trying to figure this out by ourselves. And often that causes so much distress because we feel like no one else in the world understands. No one else in the world gets what I'm going through. And that's where so much of the suffering comes when we open our voice to talk about these things.

We find residents and shared experience and therefore we don't feel so alone. And so much of the world is outside of our control, but we can at least know that other people are experiencing that like. Uh, you know, at least I'm not the only one moving through this. And I, I think it's funny when you were talking about the chakras and the, the different colors, right.

Um, the podcast colors were orange and blue and it was only. Much later into the journey, you know, you know, I come from the whole purity culture, anti spirituality opening. Okay. Okay. Woo. Okay. Oh, I'm here. Okay. Psychedelic. We're here. Okay. Uh, and to, yeah, to, to get to the, uh, sacral chakra. Right. And the voice chakra, right.

With blue. Mm-hmm. And so it's, it's funny to see these things that you, you swear you'll never do. Right? I'll never be that person who's so woo woo. And then there you get there and you're like, cool. Okay. Humbled by the journey. Humbled by the journey. Right. You so often end up where you did not expect.

Exactly. Exactly. And I know you had mentioned to me that you're going through an internal family systems training. Yes. Which is super exciting. And I know that's all fresh of mine for you. And so I think we could dive into that. I have done training with that for my psychedelic assisted psychotherapy work, and I've also done a lot of, um, research into sexuality with that.

And I, I often think about kind of reframing our sexual experience into parts, right? There's a, there's a dom part, there's a sub part, there's a brat part. And so that's something that sticks with me to help people get into more play and, and feel like these are things that they can explore rather than maybe that's not me.

I can't, you know, what if these are just parts of ourselves that we haven't connected to?

[00:40:39] Ashley: Absolutely. Uh, I love that. So taking the IFS training specifically for coaches Mm, interesting. Has been super valuable for me. Yeah. Eventually I've decided I'm going to become a therapist. 'cause like, that's just very much the natural evolution of my journey.

Mm-hmm. But I'm not currently. And so as I'm still in the coaching realm and as IFS is. Came up as a therapeutic modality. Right. I really wanted to get a lot of clarity and guidance on how to appropriately apply it to the coaching realm.

[00:41:10] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:11] Ashley: And so the reason I chose this particular training is because Dick Schwartz, who is the creator of Internal Family Systems, was teaching the first three classes.

Yeah. And I was like, well, no one knows better than the guy who made it up. Right, right. How to do this for coaches. Mm-hmm. And so it's been really, really useful to get that scaffolding and language and understand the process of parts work and how to interact with the parts, how to create space for them, how to kind of distill down.

What's getting in the way Yeah. Of whatever it is. You know, this class particularly focuses a lot on like corporate leadership and mm-hmm. And how you wanna show up in the world as your capital S self. Sure. And it's very easy to see how you can parlay this into relationships. And in fact, um, Dick Schwartz wrote the book, you Are the one you've been waiting for.

[00:42:01] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:42:02] Ashley: And that's all about IFS for intimacy and relationships. Yeah. And this idea that when we have these parts that have been exiled our whole lives and these protector parts that have been, you know, holding the, the shields and spears trying to keep, you know, pain away, those little parts are seeking the validation, the love, the acceptance, the connection that they didn't have when they were created.

[00:42:30] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:30] Ashley: Mostly in childhood. Right. Typically by families of origin and things like that. So. We will try to make our partner into the caregivers that we never had.

[00:42:41] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:42] Ashley: And that is just such a shortcut for conflict and, and struggle in relationship as opposed to becoming ourselves, the caregivers we never had, and giving those little parts the things that they needed.

[00:42:58] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:59] Ashley: So that we don't expect our partners to do that for us. Yeah. And thus don't become codependent on them. And also. Can be in dialogue with our parts when they do have needs and to speak for them rather than speaking from them, you know? Mm. My little part is angry and it's, it just takes over my mouth and all of a sudden I'm yelling at you because you didn't know that I wanted flowers for our anniversary.

[00:43:21] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:22] Ashley: Mm-hmm. As opposed to me being like, Ooh, I'm noticing that there's a little part of me that badly wants flowers for our anniversary, so I would like to let you know that to set you up for success. Right. And so that I can get my needs met by asking for them to be met. Mm-hmm. Or I can buy the fucking flowers myself, myself.

[00:43:37] Dr. Nicole: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, I remember my friend who was dating someone, and I guess he would often say, um, say things and then say, oh, oh, sorry, that's my part. I can't, I can't control that part. That's just my part that did that. So it's fascinating the people who then take that to avoid accountability, but I appreciate what you're saying.

Holding accountability. We can't just off push it onto a part and be like, sorry, it was my part. Um, but rather, how do we listen to the different parts of ourselves and then speak from that self, right? That more grounded, loving, kind, highest self. And I appreciate the IFS framework for providing more duplicity, right?

You can have a part who's saying, I'm so excited to go into this sexual scene and the part who said, I'm so terrified I wanna run away and not do this right? And so what happens when we put those in dialogue with each other and we meet with those different parts? I think that's an important thing that often our brains are like, it's only one or the other.

I feel one or the other way. And it holds so much more duplicity of, of contrasting emotions or even conflicting emotions at the same time.

[00:44:49] Ashley: Absolutely. And it's been so interesting as I've started doing this work with clients that. You know, it's turtles all the way down. Mm. Like you find a part and then you find another part, and then you find another part, and then another part, and then another part, and it's like, oh my God.

Like they just keep popping up like mushrooms. Yeah, absolutely. And. They all want attention and they've all largely been ignored or dismissed. Or numbed out. Yeah, for a lot of our lives. And so they have some pretty strong opinions about how things should be and, and being in conversation with them really is so enlightening and a lot of them just.

Simply need to be acknowledged and Right. Shown some gratitude, right. For what they were trying to do. 'cause you know, Dick Schwartz's whole thing is there's no bad parts, right? Like even the parts of you that maybe have maladaptive coping mechanisms or toxic tendencies, like those are still parts that are trying to keep you safe.

They're not doing a good job.

[00:45:46] Dr. Nicole: Right?

[00:45:46] Ashley: They're hurting people in the process. Right. But often that's because they've been. Ignored and sublimated for so long that the only way that they can get your attention is by screaming.

[00:45:56] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because that was, that was one of my first pushbacks on that field of thought where I was thinking to myself, who wants to claim their internalized racism part?

And I remember processing that on the podcast with folks of, we gotta claim that. And like you were saying, the frame being that that part is trying to keep yourself safe. And it's comes from these messed up systems that have taught you narratives about people and ways of life. Right. And so I think that's such an important understanding of it all, is that these parts are trying to keep ourselves safe.

And also we have to hold accountability for those, those pieces and do that growth and that change work. And I'm gonna speak to myself, which was, uh, about three years ago when I started psychedelic work and my training site had told me about internal family systems. I pushed back like a wild woman. I was.

I was saying, why do we have to break the psyche in parts? I am cohesive. I am one person. I have never done this parts thing. Do not cut me into smaller parts. And I pushed back for about a year and a half and then relaxed a little. Yeah. And it's like, why was that? So strong. I don't know. I don't know what framework I was coming from.

It just felt like we can't turn into the, the mind into these, these boxes and how many could I have? And it's, it's funny, I'm relaxed more now, you know, whether it's a me a metaphor, reality, who cares? It helps me to be able to understand that I have all these different pieces and I sit at the center and I'm able to hear all these different perspectives, voices, thoughts, desires, and then make that informed choice from the center.

But I know my younger self, three years ago was fighting this. And so I say that for the listener who's all also tuning in. Maybe just hearing this for the first time going, you know, like it's a real journey to kind of relax some of these, these paradigms of how we think about ourself and the ego there.

[00:47:53] Ashley: It is so funny when we like find something that challenges our dominant worldview. And how we push back and it feels very confronting and very scary, and I don't like this and fuck it all.

[00:48:07] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:08] Ashley: And I get it. Like my bachelor's and master's degrees were in philosophy.

[00:48:12] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Yeah.

[00:48:12] Ashley: And so we did like a philosophy of mind.

Sure. We did a lot of like early Greek philosophy when they were still trying to conceptualize things and, and you know, one of the, the pieces, the nuggets of wisdom that I sort of scrolled away is like, who am I? There's always at least two parts. There's the part that thinks, and there's the part that's aware that you are thinking.

Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then it goes from there. Right, right. Like, there's even more splinters. And I think psychology came along and was like, oh, multiple personality disorder is a, a mental health illness. Woo. So you can't have parts. You are one part and that's it. And, and there's the mind and there's the body and, and therein, you know, ends it all.

And it's like, well, you can have parts without splintering into multiple personalities. Right, right. Like they have a lot of space between those things. Right. Even with the IFS where you're in dialogue with your parts and they do have their own personalities and quirks and, and ways of being and, and thought processes, but like.

Where it becomes a mental health crisis is when they're so fractured that they're not able to even be aware of each other anymore. And so you kind of embody one at a time and they are often like kind of unhinged in various ways. So. It's because they've gotten so extreme and so radicalized that it becomes a problem.

Mm-hmm. But in the setting of a therapeutic relationship or a coaching relationship, or even in your own, you know, time where you are grounded and you're aware and you're thoughtful and you're kind of considering all of these different pieces and being aware of them and respecting them, it's fine to have dialogues with yourself.

Mm-hmm. We, I anyone who ruminates knows what it's like to have conversations in your head, right?

[00:49:59] Dr. Nicole: Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. I always have to stop myself when I plan like three levels deep into the conversation of what we're talking about. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh no. And as much as you try to plan everything, you know that when you get to whatever that conversation you're prepping, it's never what you expected.

No, no. Yep. A humbling journey for sure with that one for sure. And, and I wish you the best in terms of entering the field of psychology. 'cause it is a brutal one in terms of some of the expanders, especially around sex. I, I recently recorded with someone who was telling me that ASEC was still a very, like cl uh, pearl clutching experience.

Okay. You're nodding your head yes. I've yet to go. I've yet to go. Can, can you speak to that because I'm, I'm curious.

[00:50:46] Ashley: So no shade to asec. I love that they are, you know, the premier credentialing body for sexuality professionals and they have for sure gotten better. Okay. Like, I did a panel on sex and cannabis for ASEC years ago, so they're not.

Entirely Pearl Clutchy, but they are still a little ivory tower. They're still a little bit more like academically focused than I think is strictly like feasible for a lot of people who have a lot to offer the sexuality realm, but who maybe don't have time to get a bachelor's degree or a master's degree in sex, or do all of these very expensive trainings.

Yeah. And get all these hours of CEUs. Like I don't, I'm not even ASEC certified. Yeah. Because I don't have the money to throw at all of these different, you know, training programs. I've gotten plenty of training in my career. Yeah. I've done a lot of real world things, but like. There's not enough real world translation.

And also like the dues, the conference itself, they not only don't pay their speakers, they still require their speakers to pay the $500 to attend the conference.

[00:51:53] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, that's wild.

[00:51:55] Ashley: Like that's not accessible. No. For most people, especially in this economy. And so that, you know, pragmatic piece I think is a place where ASEC could grow.

And then also just like, there's still a lot of controversy around like surrogate work, sexual surrogate work. Mm. And hands-on work. And, and I understand that they have to toe the line of, you know, the advocacy, the advocacy that they're doing with regards to the legal system Sure. And payment processing and banking.

And also like not letting their members get arrested. Yeah. But there's a lot of nuance and it still feels like very rigid. And so, you know, I respect it. I think it's an amazing organization in a lot of ways and it's not a thing that I feel like I need as a sexuality professional.

[00:52:45] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. I don't either. I don't intend to go down that path.

I've already got so much student loans. Right. So much. Wow. And so yeah, that, that resonates definitely through a lot of these systems and brings up my, my views around anarchy and what does it mean to question these systems of power? Definitely the field of psychology for sure. The cost to get a degree in any of that.

Even the free labor I did for four years while in that, oh yeah. So lots of questions and I think this is where like I, I understand like the witch this and coming into more self-study and learn through all these different communities that have handed this knowledge through other. Areas, right? Betty Dotson, these people like just completely different paradigms of thought and, and holding onto the power of that and not getting so locked into the, the credentialing and what that means, right?

There's so much wisdom in these underground and more, um, alternative ways of training and learning that aren't through such a, like patriarchal form of knowledge,

[00:53:50] Ashley: definitely.

[00:53:51] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. And so I hear you combining a lot of that right? When we're combining IFS and bringing this into the healing container. And so I'm curious for you, we've talked a lot about your journey, especially with the tattoo and the transformation.

How do you combine IFS to understand your own erotic growth and transformation?

[00:54:14] Ashley: It's been such a gift

[00:54:16] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:54:16] Ashley: To be able to map out a lot of my parts mm-hmm. And see how they interact with each other and sort of understand the ecosystem of my mind. And as it relates to sexuality, like I look at, okay, if I think about my sex and I think about anything that might be getting in the way,

[00:54:33] Dr. Nicole: mm.

[00:54:34] Ashley: What do I notice? Where am I holding it in my body? Ooh, it's in my shoulders. Okay, what's there? Dig that out. Oh, there's some in my, you know, low belly. Let's, let's excavate that a little bit and these parts will emerge. You know, my little girl that just wants to play the, you know, judgmental big sister that's like, we don't have time for this.

Mm. There's the performer that's like, look over here, so you're not looking at these things that I'm ashamed of. And to be able to see when those parts come online and when they start getting in the way of me being in my authenticity as I'm connecting with other people. And if I happen to like, kind of tap in and be like, Ooh.

I'm tasting flavor notes of that performer right now. Yeah. I am in performer mode. I am completely disconnected from my body and I am focused entirely on your pleasure in a way that is not authentic. Mm-hmm. Like it is fine to be in giving space. Mm-hmm. That's so cool. But to, you know, be able to make that distinction between I'm giving from a full heart because I want to, because it feels good for me as opposed to I'm giving because I don't wanna think about my pleasure right now because I can't feel my body right now.

Yeah. Because I don't have the words to say that I feel uncomfortable. So let, let me just distract you with a really great hand job, right? Like, it's so valuable.

[00:55:57] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah. So much to learn. I mean, so much of our society really lacks the insight, awareness, and language skills to describe any of their erotic experience That's real.

And there's a lot of harm that happens because of that. And so here we are working for the pleasure. And so like you're saying, finding the scaffolding of language to describe all of these things. And like you said, being able to experience pleasure for yourself. It reminds me of, I know, you know, the, the Wheel of consent and Betty Martin.

Yes. Right. And so for the listener who doesn't know that these different quadrants of perspective when you're going into play and erotic experiences and even beyond the erotic listener, there is a episode with Betty Martin and we talk about specifically plane rides and what it means to ask. For like a ride to the airport, right?

Mm-hmm. And, and what sort of parts that can bring up and how it mirrors erotic experiences. So I'd recommend going back to that if you haven't heard that episode. Uh, even last night as I was sucking cock, I was thinking about, you know, there's so much of that experience that is giving, like, how do I give to my partner?

How do I give? But as I was like brushing the cock in my mouth and around my face, I was like, this feels good on my lips. This feels good on my tongue. Like how can I also tap into that? Which I think is just often not part of the cognition for especially women and fems to be the whole giving. Let's go back to Lilith, right?

Let's go all the way back to Lilith, right? Um, and so getting more of those neuronal pathways going of, of how can I also tap into pleasure as I give to other people?

[00:57:36] Ashley: Yes, yes. I. Love it when I make my partner moan and watch his eyes roll back in his head, like this big six foot, you know, burly, strong man who's a black belt in martial arts, amazing.

Is under my fingers writhing and growling and moaning and like speaking in tongues. 'cause he also speaks Serbian fluently, which is hot. Yeah.

[00:58:03] Dr. Nicole: Oh.

[00:58:04] Ashley: And that is a power trip for me. Like it's for him. And it is for sure also for me. I'm like, I'm gonna blow your mind right now and I'm gonna fucking get off doing it.

[00:58:13] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like it is a journey to get to that sp Oh, it's so cliche as I say it. Wow. Okay. But also, but it's true. I know, I know. I'm like, damn. It's so right there though, because I could not tap into that level of, of empowerment years ago.

[00:58:33] Ashley: I feel that.

[00:58:34] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Tapping into the empowerment you do have now, and if we were to reach back to your younger version of self, this is something that I've developed over the years of the podcast, loving to ask this question.

Is there any wisdom, words of advice from that state that you just said of like, yes. That you would give to your younger self? Who says, but how? How do I get there? How do I do that?

[00:59:01] Ashley: Yes, definitely. I would really want my younger self to understand and embody that access to me. Access to my energy. Access to my body is such a gift I have.

And we all have. Yeah. But especially me. Mm-hmm. Because I am a sex witch and I'm fucking amazing in bed. Hell yes. You're like, I have a divine sexual spark. Yes. That like anyone is lucky to get to even witness much less interact with.

[00:59:33] Dr. Nicole: Absolutely.

[00:59:33] Ashley: And. I had such pick me energy for so much of my adolescence and young adult life.

[00:59:41] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:59:42] Ashley: And if I could go back and tell. Younger me, like anything, it would be like, girl, you are the fucking gift. Yeah, yeah. And you need to be like so discerning about who gets access to that gift because it is powerful and it is potent and. Even like before I knew all of the things that I know now about how to give pleasure and all the skills and stuff, like the energy that I brought to sexual encounters was tangible.

Mm. And I would really want her to know that so that she can tap into that like inner wisdom that no one could have taught her.

[01:00:20] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:00:20] Ashley: Like that she had to be able to recognize in herself, and I wish I had recognized it 20 years ago.

[01:00:26] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yes. But every step is a part of the journey.

Every step is a part of building that connection and that that empowerment. And as you were saying that, I wanted to invite the listeners to hear that vibrating in their own body, right? That your energy is a gift, right? Yes. Where do you feel that. Your body for you. Ashley, I'm curious as you say that, do you notice anywhere kind of come alive?

[01:00:56] Ashley: Oh, it lights up my core from sacral all the way to my throat. Like it's, it's a fiery column of just like pulsating power.

[01:01:06] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Your voice. Yes. That was something that was interesting in my, my feminist training, there was a book called In A Different Voice, and it had talked about the psychology of I I, wow.

Long career ahead of me. So excited to go into things like this 'cause it's embodiment and psychology and liberation. And so the author had talked about how the voice changes depending on the circle that you're in. Right. And so even for me, I know that when I listen to my voice on the podcast way back before, it's much quieter.

Hi. I am talking about sex, uh, psychedelics. Right? Versus like you just said, like, yeah, we talk about sex in this space. Like to be able to hold that, it's, um, a huge transformation. And for me, I, I think so much of community and the circles that we're in and how that transforms our voice, there's so much internal work we can do to, to journal about that narrative.

To read books and listen to podcasts, which I find to be. A relationship. Relationship. Like you're, you're listening to a podcast, it's a relationship, a one way relationship. Right. But it's still a relationship. Sure. I'm curious for you, when you've been stepping into that empowerment, how has community played a role in that for you?

[01:02:25] Ashley: Community has really made a difference, um, because it's made me aware of where I hide and where I really let myself be seen.

[01:02:33] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:34] Ashley: And one of my biggest tells is my voice. Yeah. Like you were saying, if my voice is high and I am speaking quickly, I am uncomfortable.

[01:02:44] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:45] Ashley: I am hiding, I am performing.

Yeah. If I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. So like, I'm just so excited about da, da da and this, and then, oh wow. Thank you for like, even thinking of me and yes. When I'm here, when I'm in my chest, when I am grounded and present and not afraid to take up too much space. Yeah. And not afraid that I've been talking too long And you're getting bored.

Yeah. And yeah, not feeling like I need to shrink to fit the space, but that I can expand and take up as much space as I need. Mm-hmm. That has very distinct flavor notes when I'm in different circles and I have really curated my life. Yes. To a place where when I'm in a group and I'm like on my phone and not really talking to anybody, that's not a space I'm gonna occupy very often.

[01:03:41] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. So, so important to think about the voice and it connects to the breath, right? As you were saying, when we feel safe, when we feel able to take up that space, you're able to speak with more of that fullness. I, I think about the women in media that we have from just what, 50 years ago, you know, 60 years ago.

Hi, my name's Nicole. I'm so excited to be here. Like, how are you breathing into that? Right? Which is such a key part of pleasure and especially orgasm.

[01:04:13] Ashley: It is. It's such an important part and I can feel it. Like my voice is like, it gets choked. I'm like, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm, I'm fine. I'm, I'm really, I'm good.

I am not good. My voice make that noise. I am not good. Send help.

[01:04:30] Dr. Nicole: The more grounded I get, the more I notice that in other people. Yes. I don't think I was that sensitive to that, but when I hear people doing that, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, please take a deep breath. Like I'm thinking that in my head 'cause I'm feeling and I'm co-regulating with them and picking up on their mirror neurons and all the stuff that they have going on in their own body and feeling that within myself.

And so I feel like part of that deeper embodiment into pleasure is also gaining more sensitivity when other people are holding and restricting and, and really feeling that in my own body and, and then also being turned on or turned off by that and being very selective about the people that are around me and my circle.

Yes. Mm-hmm.

[01:05:13] Ashley: Discernment. Practicing discernment is like one of the best things you can do for yourself as an adult.

[01:05:17] Dr. Nicole: Right, right. Absolutely. Which makes me think about living in Texas. As you said, you're around a lot. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You're in around a lot of people who have different values. You are in that system of, that abortion's not legal there.

Right.

[01:05:39] Ashley: They have a six week abortion ban, which essentially means abortion's legal. Right.

[01:05:44] Dr. Nicole: So sex witch. Yeah. See, there's the breath. How, how do you maintain your embodiment? How do you process all of that?

[01:05:55] Ashley: It's hard. Yeah, it's hard here. Um, I met my first AIDS denier, which was a really. Confronting.

Fascinating, terrifying experience. This woman looked at me with her whole chest and was like, AIDS isn't real. All those people died of like organ failure from drug use

and like I was sort of stunned into silence. Yeah. I was like, you can't be serious. Like you can't actually believe that. Like Right. What? Wild, wild, wild. And, and it was a tough situation because I was in, I had just moved here. I was, it was my first time hanging out with that particular friend group and I was like, oh fuck.

Yeah. Because there are people that I respect and there are versions of me that would have like told her off in that moment. I. Not at 39, bro. Like, I don't have the energy to convince stupid people to not be stupid. Like there's this, it was very clear in the like two minutes that she was on this rant that there was no convincing her otherwise.

Yeah. So to do so would only like be stressful for me and waste my breath. Right, right. So I, you know, kind of, I didn't even nod. I just kind of stood there and, and looked at her and I was like, that's a really interesting perspective. Yeah. And spent a lot less time with that friend group moving forward.

Yes. You know, there were some moments of unavoidability, but like, it was like, okay, those are not my people.

[01:07:43] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:44] Ashley: And it's hard because there's a lot more of those kinds of folks in Texas, the, you know, anti-vax, pro-life, you know, traditional wife kind of. Prot Trumpers. I mean, fuck, I, I saw a, an ad for a 4th of July party that was like, kind of to a broad community and that was like anybody who wants to come just know that we are a, um, Christian patriotic space.

Oh my god, my heart. And I was like, back up. Back up. Not gonna, that one. Yeah. Thanks so much for letting me know. Yeah.

[01:08:22] Dr. Nicole: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[01:08:24] Ashley: And, and, you know, I have deep, deep appreciation. Betty Dodson was one of the best instigators and fire starters. She would do shit just to piss people off to amuse the fuck out of herself.

And I love that for her. Yes. I am not that kind of confrontational.

[01:08:40] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:08:40] Ashley: I, I don't thrive in those, like, my anxiety and my, my nervous system are just like, I don't wanna be in that kind of conflict. Mm-hmm. It's not fun for me. It feels really yucky.

[01:08:49] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:50] Ashley: And so I end up having to be really. Proactive.

Yeah. In kind of vetting the spaces that I go into. Yeah. And almost like when I start talking to new people who wanna introduce me to their friends, like asking some like screening questions. Like, oh, you know, are you vaccinated? Like, yeah. Oh, so you know, man, this abortion ban in Texas is pretty fucked up.

Right, right, right, right, right, right. Mm-hmm. Yes. So that's, and and you know, you can kind of tell them pretty quickly 'cause some people are just like, no, Texas is amazing and I love Texas and you will never say a bad word about Texas. Yeah. There are some redeeming qualities of Texas. HEB is great. I love their grocery store here.

Yeah, sure. They're, they're here before FEMA is in disasters and you know, people are very community oriented, assuming that you're part of their community.

[01:09:44] Dr. Nicole: Right.

[01:09:45] Ashley: Um. But yeah, no, I, I feel like I need to get out of this state as quickly as fucking possible. People are like, so how's Texas? I'm like, I fucking hate it here.

Yeah. And makes sense. You know, I, I lived in California for 12 years and now I live in Texas. Like, people are like, oh, Austin is so progressive. I'm like, not enough. Not enough compared to the rest of Texas. Yes, yes. But we're grading on a curve.

[01:10:14] Dr. Nicole: Exactly. Exactly. And. I hear the part of myself that's like, yeah, but you're resilient.

You're strong, you're totally fine. Well, how does that impact you? And something that I've had to work through in my own journey is that it impacts you no matter what. I really loved that. I read the, uh, this changes everything, the relational movement on psychology. I'm, that is not the full title, but I will make sure that I have it in the show notes.

Um, but one of the pieces that it talked about for me, I was going through this change in one of my relationships, and it was someone who was, I would say. Definitely not as sexually open in the ways that I am. And so when I would do things, they would have this cringe response and I would care about a relationship and it would make this sort of tension for me where I felt like parts of myself were too much.

And I used that word in fucking quotes. Yeah. Uh, for them, which then impacted me. And I kept saying to myself, why I have this whole other community of folks, I'm so deeply connected to myself. I'm so deep. Why is this impacting me? And the book had talked about tuning forks and how you can have all eight tuning forks in harmony.

And the ninth one comes in and it sets off a completely different pitch. Yeah. And I was like, oh, right, okay. So it's not me. It's not just me. This is a different pitch and it is impacting my sound and my frequency of my voice, quite literally. Yes, I could hear it with the breath that you were having there about Texas, right?

[01:11:57] Ashley: Yep. That's real. And you know. I'm imagining like people that live in Texas listening to this being like very offended. And I'm sorry. Like, I don't mean to, um, offend, it's just this is not my place. Right. And I will make the most of it while I'm here. And I do have some really amazing friends here. My brother is here.

There are a lot of great things about living here and I am making the best of it. Yeah. But like, this is so clearly not my place.

[01:12:25] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:26] Ashley: And I'm here because it's cheap. And California like legitimately priced me out. Yeah, yeah. That's fair. And I miss California every day.

[01:12:34] Dr. Nicole: Mm, mm-hmm. I hear that. I hear that.

And that's okay. You're gonna continue to find the community spaces that resonate with you and allow you to thrive in your full embodiment. And Totally, I appreciate the discernment of when you're interacting with those folks. Because I, I came from that world of purity culture. I was very anti-abortion, very anti any sort of sexual liberation, outside of a monogamous, heterosexual dynamic.

And so there was no, no one conversation you could have had to get me out of that deep level of cult like thinking around these topics. And so I think, you know. I, I'm pretty confident I would not be who I am. I would not be a doctor in these topics if I had not gotten access to an abortion in my early twenties.

And so same every time. Yeah, dude, every time I walk by one of those protests and they have the signs, there is parts of me that wants to get out there and start. I don't even know what I wanna say to those folks, but a rage that builds deep inside of me and I have to remind myself that that one conversation is not going to change.

And you know what I do instead? And make a motherfucking podcast with right hundreds of thousands of listeners with people like you who tune in and say, here's my community space. You can opt into it if you like it. You can leave if you don't. But this is the space where we talk about these things and we go deep and we're not afraid to have these conversations.

And I find that political activism a better use of my time than trying to have an argument or a confrontation that I know is not gonna go far. Yes.

[01:14:08] Ashley: We cannot convince people. Unless they are open to new ideas. You know, one of the things that I love about my boyfriend and appreciate so much is that even though we have wildly different worldviews, he is not deeply entrenched in his

[01:14:25] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:14:26] Ashley: And if I come to him and I'm like, okay, so here's data, here's facts, here's why I believe what I believe. Like, let me show you, you know, let me educate you on why this might not be the way that you think it is. Mm-hmm. I have watched him change. Yeah. And that is what makes our relationship possible in so many ways.

Mm-hmm. Because people who are just deeply committed to the status quo and, and to their beliefs, you know, and not interested in receiving new information or doing their research or fact checking. Yeah. Those aren't my people. My people.

[01:15:01] Dr. Nicole: Right. Absolutely. And so the power of working within your community where you feel that movement and that fertile soil to have that conversation.

Yes. I think that's so important. It's not like it's this harsh boundary. It's like, you can't talk to me if you don't do A, B, C, D. Right. If there's that space of movement, of course for safety, if we need to draw those, there are times absolutely where we have to draw that line for safety based on what people are doing to us.

But beyond that, like it's, it's that fertile ground of where can we have those conversations where we actually see some movement and some change opening and really focusing on that in your community, more direct ways of bringing that sort of liberation. It's not the stark lines. If you can't talk to us, it's like, where is that?

Energy best spent. Coming back to, like you said earlier, your energy is a gift, a precious, precious resource. Yes. And so where are you going to share that with folks? Let's, let's plan it in a space where the soil is really fertile.

[01:15:55] Ashley: Absolutely. And it's a resource that it's finite and getting more finite every day.

Like between a DHD brain and burnout and hormones. Like I, I have a very limited number of spoons on any given day, so I have to be really thoughtful about how and where and with who I spend them.

[01:16:17] Dr. Nicole: Running a badass business.

[01:16:18] Ashley: That's right. Right,

[01:16:20] Dr. Nicole: right. Yeah, that's right. Well, Ashley, what a joy to have you on the podcast again.

So much change. Ugh. And it feels like even more embodiment of pleasure and power, and it feels so, so, so good to have you on the show again.

[01:16:36] Ashley: It was so wonderful to come back. I can't believe how much has changed. God, we didn't even talk about the fact that I'm sterile now. Oh, I got my tubes taken out.

[01:16:43] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

Well, I mean, the question I always ask here is, is there anything more you wanna share? Would you like to speak to that?

[01:16:50] Ashley: Yeah, yeah. Uh, so my best friend that passed away had ovarian cancer. Mm-hmm. And having your fallopian tubes removed reduces your ovarian cancer risk by 80%. So that was high on my list.

Mm-hmm. I knew that I didn't want children and never have, but you know, a lot of people talk about getting your tubes tied, which is a ligation. Sure. This is called a bilateral salpingectomy where they actually remove the tubes, ovaries stay, uterus stay, cervix stays, just the tubes are gone. Um, and it was an easy procedure.

It was laparoscopic. My downtime was minimal.

[01:17:23] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[01:17:23] Ashley: And I am so happy.

[01:17:26] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:17:27] Ashley: The only way I could be living in Texas is to be completely baby proof and here I am. Yeah. Baby proof. And it feels like such an absolute like relief and peace of mind knowing that I cannot get pregnant under any circumstances.

[01:17:41] Dr. Nicole: Yes, yes. Ugh. The freedom there. Freedom, ugh. Yeah. And I'm sure that also has impacted your sense of self. Like how do you see that transformation with that experience? It is really.

[01:17:59] Ashley: Incredible to be able to say, I decided that I am not going to be a mother. I don't want to be, I am choosing to change my body so that I cannot be, and to like really have stood fast in that commitment to myself because I know that that's not my path.

And you know, now when people are like, oh, you know, do you have kids? I'm like, no. And like at 39, I'm not getting as many. There's still time. Or you might change your mind comments, but a few sneak through and I'm like, no, actually I got my creeps out.

[01:18:33] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:18:34] Ashley: And like that, that is the end of that conversation.

Like, sorry, can't.

[01:18:39] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, so, so important to have your voice here, right? Yes. To speak that into existence of I freely chose this and I am so happy, so happy.

I know, I've seen some of the research where it shows people who don't have kids, like women especially, have more happiness in life. I was like, Ooh, yes. Whoa. You know, you know, I think happiness is abundant wherever you choose to see it in your, your position. Of course. But I found that research very interesting.

I was like, Hmm, okay. Just give them some research. Next time they say that, you're like, oh, read this article, come back.

[01:19:17] Ashley: I love talking about getting my tubes out publicly. Yeah. Because of the ovarian cancer risk reduction. Right. Like it is one of the deadliest forms of cancer Mm. Of, certainly of genital cancers.

Sure. Um, and, and reproductive cancers. So I'm like, yo, if you have fallopian tubes and you are either done having kids or don't want kids, take 'em the fuck out. Mm-hmm. That is where the most dangerous forms of ovarian cancer start. Just get rid of 'em. Mm. You won't miss 'em, I promise. And people are like, oh, your period.

I'm like, Nope. Ovs stay. You still get it. Uh. Trust me, I just had it all weekend. I definitely still get my period perfect for the rituals.

[01:19:56] Dr. Nicole: Perfect for the rollercoaster, for ritual, all the experience that that is.

[01:19:59] Ashley: Right. But yeah, I just like wanna shout that from the rooftop so people know that that's an option.

[01:20:04] Dr. Nicole: Absolutely. And like you said earlier in our conversation about role models and people who are speaking to these things, we need people who can speak to that pathway and say, Hey, I'm over here. I'm having a great time. Right? Because so much of us are like, oh, what would my family say? What would they say?

What would they say? What would they say? Right. Which the flip of that is like, what do you say? Listener, hold on. But we need people like you so that they can see that sort of model of what's possible and be inspired by that. So I really appreciate you sharing your voice and your embodiment and your empowerment around this specifically.

Thank you. Yeah. Well, Ashley, as we're coming towards the end of our time for today, I'm gonna take a deep breath with you

and I'll check in to see if there's anything else you would like to share. Otherwise, I have a closing question for us.

[01:21:01] Ashley: Let's do it.

[01:21:02] Dr. Nicole: Okay. So the closing question is, what is one thing that you wish other people knew was more normal?

[01:21:11] Ashley: One thing that I wish people knew was more normal is using lube.

[01:21:15] Dr. Nicole: Oh my. Oh my God. Ash. Oh my God. Like, yes.

[01:21:19] Ashley: And the spit is not lube.

[01:21:20] Dr. Nicole: Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. Preach. Please gimme more

[01:21:25] Ashley: so that you know, if you take nothing else from the last Yeah. Period of time that we've been talking. Spit is not lube. Use actual lube please. And thank you.

[01:21:36] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. My previous consciousness is going, but Ashley, doesn't that mean I'm broken?

I'm supposed to be so wet. I know. I know, I know. Speak to me, Ashley. Tell me. No. Yeah. Yeah. Use lube. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Great. Do you have, for you any, uh, favorite types of lube? Not brands specifically, but are you more of a, a silicone, a water, a coconut? I'm a silicone girly.

[01:22:05] Ashley: Okay.

[01:22:05] Dr. Nicole: For sure. Me too.

[01:22:06] Ashley: Silicone is, is my go-to, especially for hand jobs and massage, but yeah, for penetration as well.

And yeah, I pretty much only use water-based if I'm using silicone toys. Right, of course. Of course, of course. Yeah. Um, and then even then, I'd rather use coconut oil. Mm. Because. I want something that's a little bit more slick and not gonna dry out.

[01:22:27] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:22:27] Ashley: And, and I do, I love coconut oil, olive oil, almond oil, any plant-based oil.

Sure. It is usually fine, unless it's not for you. So if you're like, no, but it gives me yeast infections. Cool. Don't use it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't bother my vaginal microbiome, so. Mm-hmm.

[01:22:41] Dr. Nicole: I'm cool. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. I too really like silicone and the silkiness of that. There's something very magical about that.

The amount of time and that I can go for pleasure with that is just, oh, it's magical. And so, yes, I too wish I could give my younger self that invitation and, oh, all of the painful dry sex that I was, oh my gosh. Right. Just breathe into it and experience the pleasure that is possible. When we let go of those narratives of what it means to add this in, whether it's a toy lure, whatever it is, there's so much societal bullshit to sift through, but once you get to that other side, you're like, wow.

I'm never going back to that. This is, this is amazing.

[01:23:22] Ashley: Absolutely.

[01:23:23] Dr. Nicole: Uh, Ashley, it was such a joy to have you on the podcast today. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me back. Yeah, of course. I'm sure all of the listeners are wondering, how can I stay connected to Ashley? How can I find more of their stuff?

Where can they find your content?

[01:23:41] Ashley: You can find me on my website, ashley manta.com. That's very much the portal to all of the other things. I have an online course site, elevated intimacy, but you can get to it through my website. Um, I'm on Instagram at Can Asexual. And I'm gonna be doing a lot of traveling in the next several months.

I'm gonna be speaking at the New England Conscious Arts Festival, the ninth to the 14th of September. I'm gonna be on the Athens Rome Desire Cruise, um, from September 27th to October 4th, and I'll be in hedonism in Jamaica with Naughty Gym in January from the third to the 10th. So come see me internationally.

[01:24:20] Dr. Nicole: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I'll make sure to have all of those linked in the show notes below. And so thank you again for coming onto to the show.

[01:24:29] Ashley: My pleasure. Thank you.

[01:24:32] Dr. Nicole: If you enjoy today's episode, then leave us a five star review wherever you listen to your podcast, and head on over to modern anarchy podcast.com to get resources and learn more about all the things we talked about on today's episode.

I wanna thank you for tuning in, and I will see you all next week.