268. Solo-Pleasure with the Lights Turned On - August McLaughin

[00:00:00] Dr. Nicole: Welcome to Modern Anarchy, the podcast exploring sex, relationships, and liberation. I'm your host, Dr. Nicole.

On today's episode, we have August. Join us for a conversation about healing through self-pleasure. Together we talk about girl boners, fantasy brunches, and being turned on by your creativity. Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Modern Anarchy. Welcome, welcome, welcome. I am so delighted that you are here for another episode each Wednesday.

My name is Dr. Nicole. I'm a sex and relationship psychotherapist providing psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, author of The Psychedelic Jealousy Guide and the first research study on relationship anarchy, and founder of the Pleasure Practice, where I teach students from around the world how to craft pleasurable sex lives and non-monogamous relationships.

Dear listener, I have so much gratitude for August. So much gratitude for August because she comes in and she is authentic. She's raw about what it meant to have never masturbated or explored orgasm and what it meant to do that a little bit later in life than the, quote, quote, "norm." And there's just so much in here about, you know, the process that we go through in terms of learning to love our image, learning to feel comfortable with the lights turned on.

Dear listener, solo pleasure and with the lights turned on is such an invitation to release shame, to really be with your pleasure. And bonus points if you're throwing in the mirror in there and really just witnessing, witnessing your magic, witnessing your power, and not shying away from this really, really amazing thing that we can give our bodies, the self-care, right?

I just, ugh. Dear listener, I know that you're having sex with the lights turned on, and if you're not, take the leap. Take the leap. Work through the discomfort. It's gonna be strange and weird, but I promise you, there's another side to that. There's another side where you are having sex with yourself, with your lovers, with your people, with your groups, the lights turned on without shame, and those are some of the most powerful, powerful experiences of pleasure.

And I'm so grateful that you are here to keep growing and learning and expanding in your pleasure each Wednesday. All right, dear listener, if you are ready to liberate your pleasure, you can explore my offerings and all of my free worksheets and resources at modernanarchypodcast.com. That's also where you can learn more information about my upcoming Pleasure Liberation Non-Monogamy group.

Dear listener, this is my 16-week signature program for people who are serious about non-monogamy and who want to make it pleasurable, okay? We hear all the talk about the jealousy, the fear, the insecurity, the heartbreak. This is a class all about how to make it pleasurable, and you're gonna learn with students from around the world, which is a powerful experience.

Sometimes in our non-monogamy, we feel like we're the only ones doing this. But when you see your fellow students from across the globe, okay? Different states, different identities, different ages, different levels of experience. It's so grounding in your nervous system to know that there are many, many, many people doing this work.

And I am so excited to see you in August, so excited to have you in my classroom. And you can learn all about it in the show notes below. And I also wanna say the biggest thank you to all of my Patreon supporters. Thank you for supporting the show. Thank you for being a part of this movement, and thank you for making the show free and accessible to all people.

And with that, dear listener, please know that I'm sending you all my love, and let's tune in to today's episode

Dear listener, there's a space already waiting for you where you are invited to let go of every old script about sex and relationships and begin living a life rooted in your pleasure, empowerment, and deep alignment. I'm Dr. Nicole, and this is your invitation to the Pleasure Liberation Groups, a transformative, educational, and deeply immersive experience designed for visionary individuals like you.

Together, we'll gather in community to explore desire, expand relational wisdom, and embody the lives we're here to lead. Each session is woven with practices, teachings, and the kind of connection that makes real transformation possible. And I'll be right there with you, guiding the process with an embodied curriculum that supports both personal and collective liberation.

This is your invitation into the next chapter of your erotic evolution. Say yes to your pleasure and visit modernanarchypodcast.com/pleasurepractice to apply.

And the first question that I love to ask each guest is, how would you introduce yourself to the listeners?

[00:05:38] August: Oh. My name is August, August McLaughlin. I am a health and sexuality writer. I identify as a writer almost more than any other label in my life probably.

[00:05:50] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:05:51] August: Uh, I'm also an animal lover. Um, I'm an author of several different books.

I'm working on fiction right now.

[00:05:58] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:05:58] August: And my podcast is such a passion of mine. It's called Girl Boner Radio, and I'm really into true stories and delving into these intimate experiences in spicy ways, sometimes- Yeah ... funny. And yeah, that's me.

[00:06:16] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Well, it's such a joy to have you on the podcast today.

Thank you for joining me and all the listeners.

[00:06:21] August: Oh, thanks for having me.

[00:06:23] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. So I'm curious, August, when did you start this journey of pleasure liberation? Take us all the way back. Where does it begin for

[00:06:32] August: you? I actually started wondering about girl boners when I was 11. Okay. Wow. Yeah. I had that awkward sex ed class that so many folks have had, where we learned a little bit about, quote-unquote, male pleasure, like it was alluded to.

[00:06:49] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:06:49] August: And certainly we didn't learn anything about, um, LGBTQI+ folks' bodies- Yeah ... or we didn't learn about pleasure for a body like mine. And I sat there thinking, "Ooh, I just heard something kind of exciting about a body that I didn't know could happen." I'd never seen a penis before.

[00:07:10] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:07:11] August: I just thought, "Oh my gosh, it can be like your body's like a transformer.

That- that's so cool, and it feels good." And then I'm waiting and waiting, and there was nothing except material that made me really uncomfortable and scared about my own body.

[00:07:27] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Right.

[00:07:27] August: The way it was presented, you know? Yes. So yeah, so I ended up having that curiosity, and I remember learning what the term boner meant, like during recess- Uh-huh

one day.

[00:07:39] Dr. Nicole: Yep.

[00:07:39] August: And I was like, "What about girl boners?" Yeah. And I lived in Minnesota- Okay ... in a community that was just not talking about sex at all, and I knew I couldn't really ask the questions, although I had so many. And fast-forward to my late teens, I started to really, really struggle increasingly with body image issues.

[00:07:58] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:07:58] August: And I ended up going from being involved in theater into fashion, and I was modeling, and I moved to New York very shortly after high school. And while I was in that career, I ended up developing a really severe eating disorder- And I tried conventional treatments.

[00:08:18] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:08:19] August: And some were helpful to a point.

I don't think I was ready for a lot of the therapy that I was attempting at the time.

[00:08:27] Dr. Nicole: Sure.

[00:08:27] August: I wasn't really being honest with my therapist. Mm. I was really struggling. And I hit this huge turning point sitting in a college classroom. The teacher said, "We're gonna talk about sex today." And I was stunned that we were even going to talk about it, and I'm looking around to see if anyone else is kind of like, "What?

Wait, what?" Yeah,

[00:08:46] Dr. Nicole: yeah.

[00:08:47] August: And that really changed my life. We started to just talk in general about pleasure and bodies, and I went home from that first class, and later I would realize that although I had a lot of healing to do, and it took a long time, I stopped wanting to brutalize my body in that moment. I started to realize I carried all this shame-

[00:09:13] Dr. Nicole: Mm

[00:09:13] August: and there was so much I hadn't learned- Yeah ... and that I was so far from alone in that.

[00:09:18] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[00:09:20] August: Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I just started really being explorative and just really excited, and it helped me heal so much. And then- Oh,

[00:09:28] Dr. Nicole: yeah ...

[00:09:28] August: years later, when I'd built a health writing career, I had another big epiphany where I enjoyed sex with a partner, but I'd never masturbated really- Sure,

[00:09:39] Dr. Nicole: yeah

or

[00:09:40] August: delved into self-pleasure.

[00:09:41] Dr. Nicole: Right.

[00:09:41] August: And I had my first s- solo orgasm at age 30.

[00:09:45] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:09:47] August: Like, "I need to talk about this."

[00:09:49] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:09:49] August: Like, I felt like I discovered... I knew what masturbation was, but it felt like discovering sex. Like, it felt like-

[00:09:54] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm ...

[00:09:54] August: this new planet or something.

[00:09:56] Dr. Nicole: Of course.

[00:09:57] August: And so I ended up- shifting gears on my blog to focus on sexuality.

And yeah, that's how I got to where I am.

[00:10:06] Dr. Nicole: Ah, amazing. Isn't it so fun to talk in the taboo space? The thing that people are like, "Oh my God, this- what? Sex? Ah." And it's like, "Yeah, we're here."

[00:10:15] August: I love it. Yes. Mm-hmm. I do it all day, and I love it. I- it doesn't get old to me.

[00:10:20] Dr. Nicole: I know, I know.

[00:10:20] August: I've been doing this for over 10 years, and I'm like, more.

[00:10:23] Dr. Nicole: And if it does get old, I feel like it's the kind of moment where any sort of relationship you feel like you've done it all or you've seen enough of that person, then I take a deep breath and I open some more curiosity, and then we fall in love in new ways and deeper ways that I couldn't have predicted.

[00:10:39] August: That's so true. Yes, I so relate to that. I feel like... I heard Esther Perel talk about, when she was talking about marriage or- Mm ... a long-term relationship- Yeah ... how a couple that stays together, they go through more than one marriage or more than one relationship together.

[00:10:57] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:58] August: And I feel like I've had several of those in this creative sexuality- Oh, yeah

journey. Yeah. It's, it's powerful to hit those discomfort moments and then to shake things up.

[00:11:07] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. 'Cause I'm sure you're like me, where it's like I- I've made a commitment to this topic.

[00:11:13] August: Yes.

[00:11:13] Dr. Nicole: Like, truly. Like, this is the topic, and I'm going deeper. And I know, you know, like, I do psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, and I'm so passionate about that, too, but, like, I am not here to be an expert on the drugs part.

I know how to use them for the work that I do. I am an expert in the sex and relationship space, and that is where I go and, like, deeply committed to. Like, this is my space. And when you do that, you have to forgo knowledge in other areas, truly, 'cause it's like, if I'm going deep here, this is, this is it.

I'm going for it, you know?

[00:11:44] August: Yeah, it's so true. And because I approach all my sexuality work as a writer and as like a- Yeah ... from a creative standpoint, I'm not a, I'm not a therapist or a coach or a teacher or anything. I have to make sure that my creativity is alive.

[00:12:02] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:12:03] August: And so it's so tied in. So if I start to feel a little, like, ugh, I'm, I'm not feeling the same heat or the passion or whatever, always there is a way to shift gears.

And sometimes it has to do with completely changing, like the style of my podcast, for example.

[00:12:20] Dr. Nicole: Sure.

[00:12:21] August: I used to do straight Q and A's. I- Mm ... I went from in-person interviews to then all remote, and then now to narrative. So it's all- Yeah ... storytelling weaving together. And I see such parallels between that and our sex lives.

[00:12:35] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, say more.

[00:12:38] August: Yeah. So it's so interesting to me how- When I'm really creatively alive, like I feel really turned on by creativity, which for me, it's, it's like inseparable. I- Oh, yeah ... I feel like my sexuality is my creativity and vice versa.

[00:12:55] Dr. Nicole: Yes.

[00:12:55] August: And I hear that from so many people. I'm, I'm curious what you have found, because I don't know, I haven't been able to find much research on this.

Yeah. But it feels so connected to me, and so many people talk to me about when they reach this sexual self-discovery point, or this huge awakening in their- Yeah ... sex life.

[00:13:15] Dr. Nicole: Right.

[00:13:16] August: And at the same time, it's not just their sex life that shifts, it's their whole life, and what I see is massive creativity.

[00:13:23] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:23] August: And I think it goes both ways. Sometimes healing or growth or joy or pleasure in our sex life that we want more of, or any of, starts with creativity elsewhere.

[00:13:37] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:37] August: Maybe it's painting. Mm-hmm. Maybe it's dancing. I, I see that so much and it, it always speaks to me as this, you know- Yeah ... it's... I wonder how often that is true.

Do you find that with people?

[00:13:50] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, definitely. I mean, when we think about the concepts of sexuality, we think about pleasure, we think about play, we think about embodiment, we think about connection, either with the self, others, right? Those aspects of our lives are present in so many different areas, right?

So when you have that moment, like you were saying, of solo pleasure, where you're getting really into it and you're having this experience where you can bring yourself to these heightened states of ecstasy, right, you are gonna walk around in the world knowing that you can bring yourself to that level of pleasure.

And there's a level of confidence, right? And so like you start to carry that. Even, I, I'm really fascinated with the voice, and I, I often talk about when you look to women in media in the earlier years, "Hi, my name is Dr. Nicole. I am a psychol-" Right? Like all of that sort of like really tight voice. And so when you think about to orgasm, right, the amount of breath that you need in terms of like that, "Ah."

Like that, okay, we gotta think about how like that orgasmic breath then translates into how you carry yourself, and vice versa. If you're really tight all day, how are you gonna orga- Right? Like, so the separation that we think is so clear, like, "Oh, here's my sex life and here's the, quote-unquote, rest of it," I think that's a little bit more murky, right?

It's, it's the areas of like how do you play with people? How do you feel in your embodiment? How do you feel about naming your desires, right? How do you feel about expressing vulnerability? All of that. is connected to your creativity. Yeah.

[00:15:29] August: Yes. I love that you brought up voice. That is so fascinating to me.

I know that in my journey, one thing that happened when I had that big epiphany in the eating disorder journey- Sure ... and things started to, one of the epiphanies. You know, you, you- Yeah ... hit all these sort of- Oh, yeah ... bottoms or whatever you wanna call them. Yep. And the rising up after. And one of my biggest times of surrender, I n- I went to the wall mirror in my apartment-

[00:15:52] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm

[00:15:53] August: and I hadn't done anything with songwriting in years. It was, like, a hobby when I was in high school. Yeah. And I had been stuck. I wasn't journaling anymore. I wasn't-

[00:16:02] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:16:03] August: Like, I just had lost that creative part of myself. Yeah,

[00:16:07] Dr. Nicole: yeah.

[00:16:07] August: And my voice came out different when I had- Mm-hmm ...

[00:16:12] Dr. Nicole: this big

[00:16:12] August: awakening, and I grabbed my guitar.

I wrote, like, three songs in one night after years of not writing.

[00:16:18] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:16:19] August: And, and then my voice was completely different, but it was more real. It was more me.

[00:16:25] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:16:26] August: Yeah, that speaks to me.

[00:16:27] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:28] August: It's very orgasmic, you're right.

[00:16:29] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, absolutely, right? And, and the, the work that you do, the work I do also turns me on.

Granted, again, as we named our days, we were like, "Wow, okay, I'm really in it." But most of the time when I do it, I'm like, "Wow," like, "I love this thing that I do, and I get to create, and wow, like, what a joy."

[00:16:45] August: Yeah. Yeah, there's so much joy in it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And I, I think that's such a, such a gift that we have.

[00:16:50] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. And so I can imagine coming from that restricted space, I mean, I'm so curious what your, like, actually what your sex ed was really like. Like, it sounds like there was no discussion of female pleasure. I imagine this, when you told your story, I am seeing the moment where they're like, "You can get an STI.

You'll die from it," right? Like- Yes ... "And this is pregnancy, and this is what it looks like when the baby comes out of the canal. Like, look at that. Look at that." You know, like, I'm, that's what I'm imagining. Was it that? Yeah.

[00:17:20] August: Okay. Very, very spot on. Yes. Okay. I was terrified of sitting on public toilet seats- Oh

because I remember this specific video. So this was, like... I'm bad at math. It was the '90s. I graduated high school in '97. Mm-hmm. So there was no internet when I had sex ed. There was no- Yeah ... you know? So, like, there were a couple magazines that we could read that might have some sex stuff in it, but yeah. And we called them all STDs.

Mm-hmm,

[00:17:46] Dr. Nicole: right.

[00:17:46] August: And I remember, oh, we did have... Oh, we had two speakers or two sets of speakers come into one of our health classes. This was, I think, when I was in middle school.

[00:17:56] Dr. Nicole: Okay.

[00:17:56] August: One was a couple talking about abstinence and- Oh ... why they committed to God. I wasn't even at a Christian school. Wow. I was at public

[00:18:04] Dr. Nicole: school.

Fascinating, fascinating.

[00:18:05] August: Yeah, and their decision to not have sex until they got married and how happy they were. And then we had somebody who came in and talked about, I b- I can't remember if it was HIV or AIDS that they were talking about, but talking about- a, a very serious STD situation. Um, and that was it.

The pleasure things that I heard were more gossipy.

[00:18:31] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:18:31] August: Like, I remember somebody said... Actually, no, this, I think, was a teacher. I'm pretty sure- Uh-huh ... if I'm re- Yeah ... recalling this correctly. A teacher said that boys think about sex on average, I think it was every eight seconds, and there was nothing about girls thinking about it.

And again, we only had supposedly these two genders too.

[00:18:53] Dr. Nicole: Right, right, right, right, right.

[00:18:54] August: So I remember sitting there going, "Okay," looking at the clock, eight seconds, and, like, looking around thinking, "Okay, sex and then sex." But then I started to just think about sex all the time because I had all these questions.

[00:19:06] Dr. Nicole: Huh.

[00:19:07] August: And then I thought, "Is there something wrong with me- Mm ... that I'm thinking about sex all the time?"

[00:19:12] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:19:13] August: I do remember my family is religious-y. Like-

[00:19:17] Dr. Nicole: Okay ...

[00:19:17] August: my parents' parents were very religious. I had grandparents who were missionaries.

[00:19:23] Dr. Nicole: Sure.

[00:19:23] August: Um, we grew up Christian, but very strict at first because of my grandfather's church, and then learned about some abuse from my grandfather to my mother- Mm.

Yeah ... and then we switched to, like, non-denominational much more. Right. Somewhat, somewhat liberal, I would say. Sure. But even then, uh, we learned things like masturbation is a sin, but boys can't help it.

[00:19:48] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Classic. Classic.

[00:19:51] August: Yeah. So then, you know, of course, like, I didn't even realize that that stuff got to me 'cause I thought I was kind of a rebel 'cause I'm like, "I had sex when I was in high school."

Yeah. "I had sex before marriage."

[00:20:01] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:20:01] August: I thought I, like, broke all these rules, like these- Mm ... hellion-type things.

[00:20:05] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:20:05] August: I thought I, "I'm so into sex. I'm just this, like, wild woman." Yeah. Uh, and it didn't even dawn on me that I re- Mm ... I actually wrote a paper in college on why I don't have to masturbate. I mean, it just was- Yeah

so deeply ingrained in me-

[00:20:20] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[00:20:21] August: that I didn't, I didn't think about it. I just thought... It didn't occur to me that my sexuality was mine-

[00:20:27] Dr. Nicole: Mm ... first.

[00:20:29] August: I thought it is always and only, not only part of a relationship, but a relationship with a man and a relationship that is very serious. So either you're married or you're going to get married.

And so I hadn't untangled that piece until I had my, you know, self-pleasure experience that was so, again, life-changing. I mean, very emotional. I sobbed after 'cause I just- Mm. Of course ... this whole new appreciation for my body and, and what I could feel.

[00:21:00] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Do you remember what pushed you to finally explore that?

I imagine after all those years, was there friends or community or something you had seen?

[00:21:10] August: Yeah, so it was interesting. So I was in a long-term relationship, the same one I am now. Mm-hmm. And he was away at work on, like, a trip.

[00:21:20] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:21:20] August: And I had been used to, you know, living in Los Angeles at the time, I had been acting and modeling, and I didn't question these things about how, "Oh, you can just..."

Somebody actually said this to me, "You can just hook up with people. You know, the world is your sexual oyster, essentially." Mm. If you're a young woman in Los Angeles and kind of in the acting scene- Yeah ... you can just get it.

[00:21:41] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, yeah.

[00:21:43] August: And at first, that was extremely exciting 'cause I'd never- ... even thought about this, quote, unquote, "casual sex," whatever term- Yeah

we wanna use.

[00:21:49] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:21:50] August: It was really fun and very exciting. Um, and then I was in this relationship, and so I had access, right? Mm. So there were times that I think I got into relationships because I was horny. And so without thinking about it, I'd be like, "I'm not gonna... I'm gonna stay single. I'm not gonna have sex."

And then suddenly- Yeah ... I have a serious partner. But, um, but at this time, so my partner was away, so I didn't have access, and I was in this little slump emotionally, and it wasn't like a clinical depression or anything. Sure. I, I could sense, like, the difference, having been through mental health stuff. It felt more like these blahs that I would get now and a- again.

[00:22:32] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:22:32] August: I kind of thought it was one of those we hear, "Oh, the artists, they're all, you know, melancholy."

[00:22:38] Dr. Nicole: That's how they create good art, right?

[00:22:40] August: Right. We have to be miserable, and then we make art. Right. Yeah.

[00:22:43] Dr. Nicole: Um,

[00:22:43] August: love that idea. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, so I- I was watching TV and scrolling through Netflix, and it was so funny because in the recommended shows this movie came up, Diary of a Nymphomaniac.

[00:22:58] Dr. Nicole: Mm, you know what? Are you familiar? Oddly, someone recommended this to me last week. So you're the second per- this... Okay. Okay,

[00:23:04] August: there's something to this movie. I haven't seen it yet. Tell me. Okay, I'm so curious. I wonder if so many people have these- I'm sure ... awakenings from- Yeah ... because- Oh,

[00:23:13] Dr. Nicole: yeah, yeah.

[00:23:14] August: Yes ... it, I mean, that's not something that Netflix would typically just throw.

I was watching- You know, I watch a lot of mysteries. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, where did this movie come from? It's, like, this very sexy French

[00:23:26] Dr. Nicole: film. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:23:26] August: And this woman who's very into sex. And I s- I just kinda landed on it, and I started watching it, and it was fascinating because- Mm ... my hand just sort of, like, went to my crotch.

Ah. And I was like, "

[00:23:39] Dr. Nicole: Ugh." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:41] August: And I'd never really... I mean, rubbing never was, like, exciting enough for me or I would feel- Mm-hmm ... like, just a little bit of touch just felt like, okay, this is annoying that it's not more. I mean, that- Sure ... I was very impatient about it.

[00:23:55] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:23:55] August: And, uh, and I feel like I'm a more internal pleasure person in a lot of ways, so I just, I just was not familiar with rubbing myself.

[00:24:06] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:06] August: Mm-hmm. And it dawned on me that I had this sex toy that someone had given me as a joke, 'cause they were always, like, gag gifts back then. Like-

[00:24:14] Dr. Nicole: Ah ...

[00:24:15] August: if you weren't in, if you weren't in sex positive communities, I feel like so many people, you're in a relationship, they give you a funny toy from some, you know, whatever store.

[00:24:24] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:24] August: And it was in our drawer up in our closet- Mm ... still, like, wrapped up and everything.

[00:24:29] Dr. Nicole: Wow.

[00:24:30] August: I, like, tiptoed upstairs like a teenager.

[00:24:33] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. I

[00:24:34] August: was so excited and I can't

[00:24:36] Dr. Nicole: believe I'm gonna do this.

[00:24:37] August: Mm-hmm. And so I rode this toy on top of a pillow the way- Yeah ... that I would with a partner, 'cause that's what I knew- Totally

how to do it with my body. And I- It was like taking off in a plane. Like, suddenly I can fly. I couldn't b- I was like- Oh my gosh ... "Oh my gosh, I'm actually, I'm doing this, and I'm, I'm getting there."

[00:24:55] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:24:55] August: And I reached orgasm. I experienced an orgasm, and just started crying and fell onto the bed. Mm. And I even looked in the mirror and I saw, like, my body very flushed-

[00:25:08] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

Sure ...

[00:25:08] August: and very alive in this way that was so sensual, and erotic, and something I'd never really looked at-

[00:25:19] Dr. Nicole: Mm ...

[00:25:19] August: in that way. Um, and then I called my partner, who was at work around a lot of people. And I said, "Oh my gosh, I just totally masturbated." Oh. "And I just totally made myself come," and he was he was really touched, but also was like, "Um, great."

Like-

[00:25:38] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. ... I didn't know what

[00:25:40] August: to say. It w- it became one of our favorite conversations. Uh- Yeah ... but it was very much like a kid going like, "Oh my gosh- Yeah ... I just discovered, you know, my favorite new hobby," or something. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It just was a very exciting, pure moment for me.

[00:25:56] Dr. Nicole: Absolutely.

Absolutely. I mean, there's so... There's a couple of different layers of, uh, psychedelic experience when I think about it, right? The first time you're touching yourself by yourself and having that orgasm, potentially the first time you're doing that with a toy then too. Okay, yes. Yeah. Plus, after that, then we have the moment where you're seeing yourself in the mirror.

That's a lot for folks. And then also then to share that with your partner. That's a whole nother level, right? So like, you just like full threw a couple of them right there.

[00:26:26] August: That's so true. I'd never thought about it that way. Yeah. And then, of course, I wanna take it to another level where-

[00:26:31] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[00:26:31] August: I wanna write about this on my blog.

Yeah.

[00:26:33] Dr. Nicole: And- Yeah. Classic.

[00:26:34] August: Yeah ... yeah. So it was, it was a really exciting

[00:26:39] Dr. Nicole: unfolding of events. Mm-hmm. When you were crying, do you remember, you know, in that moment what was bringing up the tears, what it was speaking to?

[00:26:56] August: I think it was speaking to a part of me that I hadn't fully healed yet, and I hadn't fully even acknowledged or been present with

[00:27:08] Dr. Nicole: Mm ...

[00:27:09] August: a part of me that had always been there and just, it's like I didn't know it was there. Yeah. And it gave me this sense of automatic, like, instant autonomy and strength Because I realized, as you said earlier, I was walking through the world in this way of pleasure is out there.

[00:27:31] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Mm.

[00:27:32] August: And suddenly it was part of me, and not just- Yeah ... a part, but a, a big part. Mm-hmm. A part that was intertwined with all the other parts of me.

[00:27:45] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah.

[00:27:47] August: Yeah. It was like discovering something pretty magical, like something that I didn't know that I had.

[00:27:53] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I'm hearing, like, a lot of emotions flooding in, maybe some grief from the past where you've realized now that there could have been this connection, and that you've been walking through the world without this.

And also the power of the connection now, and it's... I feel like it's those, um, I don't wanna say necessarily conflicting, but the excitement and the grief at the same time. You know, they're coexisting. They're not opposites, you know? They're just multiple emotions coming at the same time as you come, huh?

Like, wow. Like, that is a lot to sit in in one moment. Of course the tears would be dropping.

[00:28:28] August: Yeah. It's so true. And I think in the days and even hours after, I started to understand that I was feeling some grief, too. You know?

[00:28:38] Dr. Nicole: Oh, sure. Yeah.

[00:28:39] August: Rebound. Kind of looking back through your life and seeing these snippets and these screenshots.

Like, you know, I would think of this particular relationship that I got in that I was like, "Eh, it was not the best-" Yeah ... "situation for me or maybe for either of us." And, and, uh, yeah, it just... I, I just couldn't help but wonder, what would my life have been like? I'm so glad it led to where it did, because I don't think I'd be doing the work I do today- Right

without it. Right. So there's always some purpose you can find in things. But, but I definitely wondered and, and, and felt a lot of concern, too, about so many people-

[00:29:21] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm ...

[00:29:21] August: experiencing this, too, in their own- Yeah ... kind of way.

[00:29:24] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so that integration piece, that reminds me a lot of my psychedelic work where, um...

And I also use psychedelics as a metaphor often, right? Like, the experiences you've had, those were mind-altering, reality, narrative-altering experiences. And so when we have those, whether it's metaphorically or with a drug, right, we integrate afterwards, and as we integrate that new experience, it overlays, it adds, it changes the narrative.

When you look back now, you're like, "Oh, wow, I'm seeing this in a completely different lens." And so there's so much to integrate. And often in these, like, really big experiences, we can also have rebounds where then we try to, like, contract back. That's very common after a psychedelic trip, where you're like, "Whoa, this really...

Oh, no, what did I say?" It's the vulnerability hangover afterwards where you're like, "Oh, gosh, what did I do?" Did you ever have any of that after that experience where you try to, like, pull back in a little?

[00:30:22] August: I don't recall having it in that moment, like following the- Mm ... the solo orgasm. Mm. But I definitely did have it after I released into the world this big public proclamation.

[00:30:35] Dr. Nicole: Oh, sure.

[00:30:36] August: So I had... This was, like, in the heyday of blogging- ... and I had a decent readership. My dad- Yeah ... subscribes to my blog. Like-

[00:30:46] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah. There you go.

[00:30:48] August: You have all these feelings, right?

[00:30:49] Dr. Nicole: I feel you. Oh,

[00:30:50] August: my goodness.

[00:30:51] Dr. Nicole: Oh,

[00:30:51] August: yeah. And, uh, so I just... And, and still, m- it's changed some, but my family still didn't talk about sex then.

Yeah. So it was kind of like, "Oh, my goodness. What is she doing, and what is happening?" Uh, I just- Right ... but it didn't hit me... It's so interesting. I'm glad it didn't hit me till this moment, but it was, like, hitting publish on this post.

[00:31:10] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:31:11] August: And then the millisecond after, I'm like, "Oh, my gosh. What did I just do?"

[00:31:16] Dr. Nicole: What did I just do?

[00:31:19] August: Yeah. I was so nervous. Yeah. I've heard this term excite-terrified. I felt like that.

[00:31:24] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm,

[00:31:25] August: mm-hmm. So excited and turned on and happy, and also completely terrified.

[00:31:30] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. It reminds me a lot of exhibitionist scenes I've had in my life. Like, it's a- Mm-hmm ... very similar feeling.

[00:31:36] August: Yeah. Oh, totally.

[00:31:37] Dr. Nicole: I'm like, "Wow, people are watching me? Sure, welcome."

[00:31:38] August: It was like literary exhibitionism, kind of. Exactly. I mean, the first post wasn't explicit or anything. Yeah. It was more about, like, my sex ed experience. But yeah, it still... It opened up something. Mm-hmm. And it was like, it was a coming out for me.

[00:31:53] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, absolutely.

And then the, I, I think the wild part to that, it makes sense, our human brain, right? But we adapt. We always adapt. Human beings, that is one of our biggest strengths, so that we will adapt to any environment we're, we're in, good, bad, or otherwise. And when we're in these experiences where we're pushing our, um, edge or comfort level with being an exhibitionist, whether it's in sex or literary or the creative acts, or wherever it is that we're coming out to be authentic in who we are, you almost normalize to that new level.

And then you're like, "What's the next edge? Where is the- ... hmm, it's over there? Ooh, okay, what's over there?" You know? Like, it just keeps kind of, like- Yeah ... going further.

[00:32:31] August: Yes, I feel that totally.

[00:32:33] Dr. Nicole: Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And so these points, like, it, it's m- I feel very comfortable talking about how many orgasms I have with toys, by myself, with partners, in these play spaces, at home.

Like, it feels so much more of a, a breath of air when I say that without any fear, right? And I do think that that translates into my life. And, and a big experience for me of what made that possible is, of course, the podcast space. I come into the space where people like you are like, "Yeah, I get it. I get it."

And I'm like, "Yes." And also the community that I've had, having other friends who have been there and experienced that. I'm curious, what did your community look like as you're going through this transformation? Was there any relationships that, like, fell away, and new ones that came to, like, meet you in this new chapter?

[00:33:21] August: Oh, yes. It changed so much.

[00:33:24] Dr. Nicole: It always does, right? It always

[00:33:26] August: does. Well, even when I went home from that college class- Mm ... really excited about talking about sex, I had a boyfriend at the time, and it was a really galvanizing experience. Like- Suddenly he couldn't look at me the same way. Oh,

[00:33:40] Dr. Nicole: gosh.

[00:33:41] August: It was, I mean, it was like a mirror and a magnifying glass of like, whoa, we...

It was the beginning of the end of us for sure.

[00:33:50] Dr. Nicole: Good.

[00:33:50] August: Um-

[00:33:51] Dr. Nicole: Good for

[00:33:51] August: you. And I can... Yeah, yeah, thank- thankfully. Um, so it's interesting, I, I didn't have, I really didn't have many friends that I could talk to- Mm ... about sex and I would... Once I had the solo orgasm and I, before I even started the blog series, I was in this space of feeling almost like the happy parts of puberty where you're discovering and things feel new and-

[00:34:17] Dr. Nicole: Yeah

[00:34:18] August: I was just on fire. I was like, I wanted to talk about it, and I had some friends who seemed quite uncomfortable when I would bring it up, and I have to really look at myself and my lack of knowledge around consent for that- Mm ... at the time because I, I feel, you know, I feel bad about that now- Mm ... that I would just talk, you know, bring up at dinner like, "Hey, do you wanna talk about sex toys or penises or-

[00:34:49] Dr. Nicole: Sure

[00:34:50] August: vulvas or..." Um, I realized very quickly that I felt very different from the people around me-

[00:34:57] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[00:34:57] August: in, in terms of what I was interested in and wanted to talk about. And so- As a writer, I had a lot of writer friends, and some of my first close friends who I felt, oh, we're like in a similar space, and I feel a sense of community- Yeah

were erotica authors.

[00:35:13] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Exactly.

[00:35:15] August: And that was wonderful. So I started connecting with other writers who wrote fiction, sexuality stuff, and then once I started my podcast, as you said, having these conversations with people, I would say almost, like, at least half my friends maybe, I don't know. I, I feel like so many people I have in my community I've met through, through the podcast- Yeah

because you do, you have these conversations, and, um, that's been really powerful. And luckily my, my partner was always like really cool about all of it, and very encouraging and-

[00:35:48] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm ...

[00:35:48] August: so it did the opposite. That magnifying glass was a positive thing this time. Yeah. Of like, yay, like, let's celebrate this.

That's great, and, and really respecting my desire to explore and, 'cause it was shortly after that that I submitted to Rutgers University to- Mm ... participate in orgasm MRI research, and to-

[00:36:07] Dr. Nicole: Cool ...

[00:36:08] August: play with myself in a MRI machine. Um- Yeah ... and so it's interesting, 'cause then I, I remember being on a radio show talking about that experience after I'd written about it, and somebody called in and said, "I would never let my wife do that," and I just-

[00:36:22] Dr. Nicole: Let my w-

[00:36:24] August: Yeah.

[00:36:25] Dr. Nicole: Ugh. Ugh.

[00:36:26] August: Oh. Let my

[00:36:26] Dr. Nicole: wife?

[00:36:27] August: Horrible. It was- He's like, "That's cheating." And I just-

[00:36:31] Dr. Nicole: No ...

[00:36:31] August: I couldn't believe. I'm like, wow, I'm in such a different, healthier space now than I- 'Cause there was a time that maybe somebody would say that, and I wouldn't have been so aghast. But I was like, ugh, I didn't know what to say.

[00:36:46] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. I mean, my past consciousness, I, I was raised in purity culture. I had a purity ring, the whole thing. So I know my past consciousness would agree that that is cheating. My current consciousness is aghast, but like, you are your own autonomous being. You deserve to be able to touch your own body in any...

It's your b- it's your body. Like- Yeah ... do what you want. Like, I can't e- you know, like, so it's really hard for me to hear that. Yeah. I know my past self, though, would be like, "Absolutely, that's cheating. Horrific. How dare you sin?" You know? So it's like the psychological journeys we can go through based on our culture and our upbringing, right?

Like you were saying, when you first started feeling more comfortable with these conversations, that consent piece around other people's comfort levels, and it's, it's really hard when that's the culture you start to step, like, into, and it's, it's like talking about, you know, what you had for dinner.

You're like, "Yeah, I had the scene. There was fisting. There was this dildo." Like, yeah, it was great, you know? But to someone else, that is activating, triggering beyond their ability to imagine at that current point. It brings up so much, and then a lot of people struggle to even say if they're uncomfortable about that sit- I mean, it is- Wow.

And so you have to find the people who practice that same culture so that you don't feel so isolated and like you're an alien on this planet, right?

[00:38:02] August: So true. Yeah.

[00:38:03] Dr. Nicole: And, yeah. And it's important to remember that, like, in our, in our global context, there are cultures where, you know, in America, the Puritans colonized this land and came in with some of the most strict concepts of religion.

That's why they left England, right? It was like, "It's not strict enough. Let's make it more intense." So America, you know, all of the colonization that happens there, right, it's very strict. No pleasure. You work hard. You work hard, and you procreate, and there's no pleasure, right? And so we hold that as the beginning of the culture here.

And so there's still a lot of people in this space who have that. Around the world, that's not the same. There are cultures that really find sexuality and eroticism to be a deep part of the spiritual pieces and something to be revered and honored as sacred. And so we have to hold that, too. Like, when we're meeting people, especially the further you go into the kink community, the more normalized these spaces are, but you have to hold that context.

Um, and so I, I, I hear you, and I'm so glad that you found the people who could meet you in that level of connection 'cause connection is what allows us to feel and have the best, like, mental health, truly, at the end of the day. It's the disconnect when you look across the table and everyone thinks you're the weird one who's talking about something.

You feel that, that, that, um, being excluded from the herd. That was one of the most dangerous things for us as human beings, right? And so your mental health starts to struggle in all those ways. And so I'm so glad that you found the community spaces where you could be really held in this, like, new area of your life.

[00:39:29] August: Yeah. Yeah, it makes such a tremendous difference, and it really, I think, can boost your confidence- Yeah ... and your sense of self-esteem and feel like... A lot of the things that I used to feel quite self-conscious about from, like, old wounds as a kid-

[00:39:44] Dr. Nicole: Sure ...

[00:39:45] August: that weren't seemingly related to sexuality-

[00:39:47] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm

[00:39:49] August: Really found a lot of healing.

Like things like- Mm ... oh, I talk too much, or-

[00:39:53] Dr. Nicole: Oh ...

[00:39:53] August: you know, just these things that I hadn't even thought to address and I felt like, oh, these people see me and it's okay.

[00:40:01] Dr. Nicole: Sure. Absolutely. And I can imagine then the pieces of, of womanhood on top of that, right? Like, you had named, like, the concepts of womanhood where sexuality and eroticism is always giving.

We're giving, we're giving, we're giving. It's never for ourselves. And also the concepts of, like, a woman should be quiet, right? Respectful. Do not be angry. You should smile the whole time, right? So I can only imagine, and, um, for the listeners who are tuning in, like, maybe you didn't get that very directly from your family or these messages, but it exists in our larger context, in the unconscious.

It's in the movies that we see, in the media when someone gets shushed or the amount of camera time that they don't ha- Like, all of that sort of stuff is at play in our unconscious, and so it reminds me of, as you said at the beginning, where you're like, "I thought I was really liberated and this wild, wild woman," you know?

And it's like there is always gonna be more for us across the whole journey of unpacking, oh, shit, I had no idea how deep that was. So I'm always humbled. Like, you know, I'm always just, I sit here and like I'm humbled, I've learned a lot, and I'm ready to continually be humbled. Like...

[00:41:06] August: Yeah. These things will come up again.

[00:41:09] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah.

[00:41:10] August: Yeah. It's so true.

[00:41:12] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. And even thinking about communities, I imagine you talked about, like, the eating disorder and, and that relationship to your body, right? Like, at the modeling community.

[00:41:22] August: Oh, yeah.

[00:41:23] Dr. Nicole: So, like, so it's, it starts to really create your reality. I'm sure even getting out of that probably helped your body image and all of that.

[00:41:31] August: Oh, completely. Yeah, and it's interesting. I had a really hard time finding any meaningful friendships when I was modeling at all. I mean- Mm ... one, it's a very transient business- Yeah, yeah ... and you're traveling a lot, but I just didn't feel any commonality with people until I both found writing and found, you know, sexuality.

I feel like I could see, I could see myself reflected in other people and I, you know- Mm-hmm ... we had similar interests. There were times I thought there was something wrong with me because I didn't, you know, I didn't like clubbing. Yeah. I d- I wasn't- Yeah, I hear that ... I'd go to these, like, dance clubs, and I'd be, like, dancing around, and in my head I'm like, "Can I go home?

Can I go home?" Right, right, right. "Can I go home?"

[00:42:11] Dr. Nicole: Right, right.

[00:42:12] August: Like, why was I there?

[00:42:13] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:14] August: I felt like I was supposed to do this. Yeah. I just kept doing things I thought I was supposed to do.

[00:42:18] Dr. Nicole: Right. I'd rather be at the morning yoga class, but that's just me, right? That's just me. Same.

[00:42:22] August: I'm such an early bird.

Yeah. I, I was like, all my roommates would be going out to these clubs at night, and I was, like, reading my mysteries and going to bed and getting up super early. And that's still me. I've- Mm-hmm ... I'm a morning person, and that's fine. I mean, it's totally fine. Mm-hmm. But I felt so nerdy. I f-

[00:42:41] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[00:42:42] August: I felt like a wild woman before I moved to New York.

Mm. And then I got there, and I thought, everyone's probably looking at me like I'm this nun/librarian. I felt so nerdy once I got there.

[00:42:54] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For centering your pleasure.

[00:42:57] August: Yeah.

[00:42:58] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm, 'cause it's off the quote, unquote, "norm of the community" that you're in.

[00:43:03] August: Yeah, completely. Mm-hmm. Especially... I mean, in modeling, what are you doing?

You're trying to... You're the paint. You know what I mean? Like, you're the paint on the canvas.

[00:43:12] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:43:13] August: And there, there was a lot I loved about modeling. I have, like I said, a performing background, and I, I appreciate art. I was not into fashion. So, like, I really was there to be molded.

[00:43:26] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:43:27] August: And so many of us, I mean, we're kids, our brains aren't fully developed.

And, uh, it's a, it's a tough adult... It's a very adult business.

[00:43:34] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah.

[00:43:35] August: And it's kids.

[00:43:36] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:43:36] August: So it's... Yeah. That was, that was pretty challenging, um- Yeah.

[00:43:41] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. I've worked with clients who have been in that industry, and I've heard horror stories of what it can look like in the psyche. And so I'm curious for you, how, how did your relationship to your body, your sexuality shift over those years?

I can imagine being in modeling, like you said, where you're the paint, that has to impact the way that you were stepping into eroticism and feeling around your sexuality if you're constantly in the thought process of, "I'm being observed. I'm being seen. I'm being observed." Did that ever translate into...

Yeah, you're nodding.

[00:44:14] August: Yes.

[00:44:15] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:44:15] August: So much so. It's fascinating to me because they say, "Sex sells. Seduce the camera." Mm. Mm. Like, it's a very sexualized- Sure ... art form, you could say. Yeah. Especially fashion. Not just photography, but when you're in high fashion, it's very sexual. Right. And at that point, I was so sick physically and mentally from this disorder that my body was not even able to sexually function.

So- Sure ... I remember being at this one Halloween party, and I was dressed as Catwoman, and- I felt powerful because I felt sexy in this costume, right?

[00:44:57] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:44:58] August: And getting compliments on my appearance, and I could feel people being into this, like, facade I had on. But I was so depleted-

[00:45:08] Dr. Nicole: Mm ... that I, like,

[00:45:09] August: I remember obsessing about a particular food and then falling asleep.

[00:45:13] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Wow.

[00:45:15] August: And just the contrast of, of that showing this, like, sexy thing and then not being that. There was another time in my journey, so many eating disorders, as I'm sure you know, they, they shift a lot. Um, I was at one point initially diagnosed with anorexia after, uh, collapsing in Paris. It was quite- Mm

um, quite an ordeal physically.

[00:45:37] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:45:38] August: Um, throughout my healing process, which is very common, I started really struggling with binge eating.

[00:45:44] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:45:45] August: And so the challenges shifted around. Um, but it was wild because once I had enough energy from food, 'cause binging was actually really helping me. It might have saved my life.

I was, I was eating and eating, and the emotional torment was really challenging. But from the outside, I'm sure, you know, people were relieved, like, "Oh, she's healthier." And I was- Mm ... I was really in a dark, hellish space. Mm. But at that point, sex became this wonderful release for me.

[00:46:15] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Yeah.

[00:46:17] August: So it can be very healing, and it was, it was very nurturing and healing and, um, helpful to me at that time, even before I got deep into the healing process.

Yeah. So that was empowering for me, and then being single and having sex without relationships was also really strengthening for me.

[00:46:35] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:36] August: And I feel like I started to feel more at home in my body, for sure. Mm. Yeah. And then when I shifted from acting into writing even more so, because it was the first time in my life people didn't even know what I looked like at first.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, now everybody knows what everybody looks like. But when I first started, 'cause, you know, we're in a very... Authors are expected to have their reels up and everything. But-

[00:46:59] Dr. Nicole: Right ...

[00:47:00] August: when I first started, I remember writing for this publication, and this editor, I loved the way that he was interacting with me.

Yeah. I felt so respected, and I felt-

[00:47:10] Dr. Nicole: Good, yeah ...

[00:47:10] August: he saw my intelligence that- Yeah ... I had had a, you know, some insecurities about And at one point I realized in an email, we hadn't spoken to each other, he thought I was a man. Oh, wow. And I thought, "I wonder if he would treat me the same way?" Sure. I don't know.

[00:47:30] Dr. Nicole: That's a deep question. Yep, that is a very good question. I really don't know.

[00:47:33] August: Yeah, so it's interesting. But being able to be behind the scenes-

[00:47:38] Dr. Nicole: Shifted it a lot, yeah ...

[00:47:39] August: I remember a therapist actually saying to me when I was shifting from modeling into acting, she was like, "That's great, and also that's still very appearance-focused, so let's just- Yeah

talk about that." Yeah. And I was like, "What are you talking about? They're not gonna be, like, measuring my waist size, and I could just be who I am." But of course, it's appearance-oriented. I remember getting casting calls that would specify, one of the things I had to think about going on auditions in LA was, should I look like a busty, voluptuous person, or should I look like- You know, the opposite of that, like someone who's shy, intimidated, and flat.

Like, boobs came up all the time- Mm ... in my auditions. Yeah. They would be, they would specify... I hope it's improved, but they would specify so many things about the female characters' bodies and appearance. It would be like, "The intelligent jock who's from this rich family, who's really successful and has a lot of friends, you're gonna play the opposite.

She's a busty, voluptuous Barbie," da, da, da, da, da, da. I mean, I still have some of these notices, and I've looked at them- Yeah ... having years in between, and I just feel sorrow for myself, because it didn't even dawn on me to do anything but my job. Hm. I just, I was so dedicated to it, and I felt like, "I need to show up and do what I need to do."

So I remember, like, taping my... 'Cause I'm, I don't have big boobs, and I would try to, like, tape them together and push them up- Yeah. Sure ... and having to think about my appearance all the time still. And I was fairly young. I was a young adult then. Mm-hmm. So I think now it would be different. I'm approaching my late 40s, and I think that it would be really hard, because there is a lot of ageism in these, you know, in these industries, too.

[00:49:24] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Absolutely, absolutely. And so did you notice a lot of that m- like, self-monitoring in your own personal sex life then, I'd imagine? I did. Yeah. It was interesting.

[00:49:38] August: I kinda let loose in a lot of ways at that time, though. So things like I would drink alcohol socially.

[00:49:45] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Mm-hmm.

[00:49:46] August: You know, things that would help me a little bit get out of that space.

I actually remember, because I didn't drink because of this disordered eating mindset I'd had. I was not drinking alcohol. And then in LA, I remember starting to, like, have a cocktail. Mm. And I remember the first time I felt, like, truly tipsy- Mm ... and looking in the mirror, and there was a separation between-

[00:50:07] Dr. Nicole: Ah

[00:50:08] August: me and those thoughts, and I thought, "Oh, this is why. This is how I could potentially be hooked to this."

[00:50:14] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:50:14] August: Like-

[00:50:14] Dr. Nicole: A

[00:50:15] August: break ... I, I didn't, I didn't get h- you know, I feel like I maintained a fairly healthy relationship with alcohol, but I saw the draw and I was like, "I like this permission it's giving me to not think about my appearance so much."

Mm-hmm. So it definitely did affect sex. Um, there was a time when I couldn't really, or I didn't believe I could let loose and have sex without h- alcohol- Yeah ... and being pretty drunk. Mm-hmm. So that was interesting and I would end up... Because of that, I would also end up with people who I didn't have a lot in common with because I just wasn't thinking through.

Yeah. So yeah, I, I feel like it lessened over the years, my criticisms of my body, but it was still, it was still present. You know? Mm. It's something that took bit by bit, you know, gradually working on, and I think, I think it really improved my sex life, but the thing that helped it most was definitely my own self-pleasure.

Once, once that happened, I, I realized that I could love my body.

[00:51:24] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[00:51:27] August: If that makes sense.

[00:51:28] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, it does. I mean, and now your body, rather than this thing that you're trying to tape together or put into this really tight box, is actually, like, a space for pleasure and for ecstasy. Like, your, your body can just do that.

It doesn't have to look a certain way. You, you just have to feel, and it can do that.

[00:51:47] August: Yeah, it's so true. I, I actually remember when I started having sex with the lights on.

[00:51:51] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Which was huge for folks.

[00:51:52] August: I refused before that. Yeah. I was so... I couldn't even relax.

[00:51:58] Dr. Nicole: Even while modeling?

[00:52:00] August: While modeling. Oh, yes.

Even when I was- Mm ... when I was modeling, when I was having sex, which there were, there was a period where I just wasn't at all. Sure. And then when I did, yeah, the lights had to be off. And I had this, like... It was almost like I felt like my modeling self required camera magic and professionals, and that was a totally different person-

[00:52:24] Dr. Nicole: Mm

[00:52:25] August: than me stripped down as myself- Sure ... physically and emotionally stripped down. Like, if I'm really me, I'm not as attractive, like all of that's fake. Yeah. I thought people would see through it somehow. And so-

[00:52:35] Dr. Nicole: Mm ...

[00:52:36] August: yeah, it took, it took a while. Um, and then I lived in Miami for a while, and when I was in South Beach-

[00:52:43] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm

[00:52:43] August: I was modeling and studying acting. And that is a whole other body image sexuality place because- Sure ... there's a lot of sexy culture there, right? Like-

[00:52:54] Dr. Nicole: Mm ...

[00:52:54] August: people going around in their string bikinis and their high heels. Like, I always had to have a bikini and high heels for auditions just in case, 'cause they often wanted to see that.

And I still wasn't comfortable in a bikini. Yeah. But I remember going topless on a beach once because I had these, like, massive tan lines from-

[00:53:10] Dr. Nicole: Mm ...

[00:53:11] August: going for jogs on the beach. Even when it wasn't, like, midday. Sure. It could be morning or evening, and the sun is just so hot there.

[00:53:18] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:53:19] August: And, uh, I remember my agent saying, like, "Maybe you should just, like, lay out."

And I was like, "But the parts of me that there's tan lines, like, I have to take my clothes off, you know?" Yeah. And he's like, "Well, yeah, that's okay." And I thought, "Huh. Okay, I'll try it." It actually was really freeing-

[00:53:33] Dr. Nicole: Mm ...

[00:53:34] August: to be on a beach. And I noticed that the more, like, boobs I saw around me, they became, like, not a thing.

[00:53:40] Dr. Nicole: Oh, normalized. Yeah. Exactly.

[00:53:41] August: It's so normal.

[00:53:42] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[00:53:42] August: Like, it was just like, who cares? Okay. There's just bodies and nakedness. And it does become less of a thing. I like that. And I think that was helpful sexually too, to be like- I see boobs of all shapes and sizes, and th- they're just bodies, and- Oh, yeah ... you know.

So I, I do think that I was having more pleasure at that point.

[00:54:03] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, again, going back to that aspect of the human capacity to adapt and the power of culture, right? And so yeah, if you're on the beach and everyone's naked, then you're a part of that. It's not weird. It's just what you do.

And it's often h- uh, it brings down a lot of the eroticism, because it's not so taboo about it, right? I always think back to when women's ankles were really erotic. There was periods of time where our whole body was supposed to be covered. And so if I was out in the streets of Chicago and flashed an ankle, "Oh, dear God.

How dare she?" You know? Like, I could have lured in a man. Like, I'm like, you know, the whole thing. And so it's really fascinating. Um, I, I love having that conversation because I think it's important for all of us to, like, always have that curiosity about what are the circles that we're running in, how is that impacting our concept of self.

And these parts of ourselves that feel so innate, like, we are living, breathing that moment where you're like, "Oh, gosh. I don't know if I can be naked on the beach," right? Like, you're actually feeling that. But to remember how deep that is impacted from the culture that you live in, I think that's the space of freedom.

Often a little bit of fear, 'cause then it goes, like, "Well, do I have free will? I'm just in this, like..." Oh, no. You know? Like, that's a whole other psychological conversation, uh, with no answer. So I try to stay in the other space of, like, just acknowledging that, like, that, that wisdom of knowing that you are being impacted by the systems is your empowerment.

Yes. Now, when do I do it? Like, for myself, like, I, um, with my, like, hair on my bikini line, I, I really wanted to get it lasered, and then I had such a, like, feminist back and forth- Yeah ... and back and forth, and like, "What does it mean that I want this?" Like, "Why can't I just be who I am?" And so for myself... But the, okay, the reality is I get a fucking, a bunch of razor burn every single time.

Razor burn, okay? So I at least decided I was going to do it, but what I wanted to do first was have, like, a, a certain amount of trips to the beach where I had full bush- full bush, did not shave the sides. I went out. I was out there in bi- the bikini, and I had to go through all of that psychological work where I was like, "People are staring at me.

People know I'm gross. I'm what? I'm this. I'm whatever the fuck," like narratives I had about it. Yeah. But after I did that enough times, like, my body relaxed, and I was like, "This is just my body and this is just what it is," and I felt much more space to be like, "Okay, now I'm gonna go get this off 'cause razor burn sucks"

[00:56:33] August: I love that.

[00:56:33] Dr. Nicole: Like, "I don't wanna deal with this anymore." But, like, I pushed through that, like, weird psychological cultural space.

[00:56:42] August: I love that you did that. Yeah. I think it's so important because we tend to... You know, we have all these choices and pressures to do certain things to us, to have injections and to-

[00:56:52] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[00:56:52] August: you know, be hairless and to all these different things.

And I just think it's important to have those reflections with ourselves where we are really considering, okay, this, yes, it's my body, and anything I wanna do to it, great. Mm-hmm. Like, that's part of feminism, too. Yep. And then where does the motivation come from? Why am I making these choices? You know, um, I had a conversation with a young woman.

She was only maybe 20, 21- Mm-hmm ... uh, because I do some, a bit of advocacy work, uh, in- with folks who are going through disordered eating and stuff like that. Sure. And she was budgeting out all of these treatments she was gonna be having for her appearance, and what was really difficult was that she did not have the money for it- Oh

and she was going into massive debt. And it just, it made me really sad. And it was interesting because we were able to talk about these things and, and get to a place where she could understand where her decisions were coming from, and then make the ones that felt like she could still be true to herself.

And also, where does this deep, deep pressure come from? Why do we feel like if we don't do X, Y, or Z we are not valid? I mean, it, it goes so deep beyond appearance. And so those are such important things to, to think about. I mean, I think the ankle ex- uh-

[00:58:20] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[00:58:20] August: the ankle example is so good because I think about...

I do this with myself. Like, when I see certain things like, oh, I have this, like, particular wrinkle or whatever- Sure ... I'll go, "Huh. Okay. So I'm just noticing it." Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm noticing, like, I have lines on my neck. Mm. This is one I do often, and I'm like, okay. So our culture tells us that lines on our neck are a turkey neck.

[00:58:42] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:58:42] August: That they are not good, that they are, quote-unquote, "ugly," they are not sexy.

[00:58:46] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[00:58:48] August: But it's so arbitrary. If we had pressure to have lines on our necks, if that became a trend, we would be paying so much money- Oh,

[00:58:56] Dr. Nicole: yeah ...

[00:58:56] August: to try to get these marks and these- Yes ... stretches and stuff like that.

[00:58:59] Dr. Nicole: Yeah,

[00:58:59] August: yeah. And I just, I just think that's so fascinating.

Yeah, and complicated.

[00:59:03] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Absolutely, absolutely. When you look at the multicultural research, right, of body size and what is attractive, talk about the thigh gap and the whole America and all of that. But in, and you know, in countries, you know, where there's more prevalent disease and, you know, things like malaria where, like, if you get that disease, like, you would lo- lose all the weight on your body, right?

That body size is not attractive. That's actually, like, a very sickly body size, right? And so you can see that. And, and the wild part is, you know, that's research that's done, and if you're the research participant, you are looking at the scale of bodies and saying, "Hmm, which is authentic to my felt sense of desire," right?

So, like, these moments we have where I'm like, "Hmm, I'm attracted to that person or this lifestyle or that," right? Like- The reality is that research participant is a reflection of their culture, and we look across and we see how different it is. And so yeah, this is something for us to always be thinking about is, like, yeah, it feels authentic.

It feels like it's you, and the reality is it is you, and it is the society. We are interdependent in that way, right? There is no island, right? Yeah. And so yeah, all these expectations of what you're supposed to look like, what your body is supposed to look like, how you're supposed to perform, how loud your orgasms should be, how much you're supposed to talk in sex, all that sort of stuff.

Yeah, those are the reasons why we don't wanna have sex with the lights on, right? Because there's, like, all these expectations, often from porn, which is not education. It is fantasy and entertainment, and often problematic entertainment, but it can be good, right? There are creators I do love and respect and pay for and, like, really enjoy, but most of us are not getting access to that, right?

And so yeah, of course most people, my previous self, wanted to turn the lights off because God forbid you see this little, like, wrinkle over here or this fat roll over there or, like, that fart that comes out when you're getting fucked. I mean, like, all of these things that you never get to see in the, quote-unquote, "images" that we have in society.

Yeah.

[01:01:04] August: Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. Mm-hmm. And when we don't feel sexy and attractive-

[01:01:09] Dr. Nicole: Yep ...

[01:01:10] August: it can really impact our desire and our- Oh, yeah ... willingness and our ability- Mm-hmm ... to even just relax-

[01:01:17] Dr. Nicole: Oh,

[01:01:17] August: yeah ... and be present. And I hear from folks who think that their libido is, quote-unquote, "dead" or- Mm ... you know, and it, it often has so much more to do with these cultural factors.

[01:01:31] Dr. Nicole: Oh,

[01:01:31] August: yeah. You know, sometimes there is a physiological issue going on.

[01:01:35] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:35] August: Um, but I would say most of the time it's, it's more than just that, or it's only these pressures that we have.

[01:01:43] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:43] August: They impact us so much. I mean, how excited for sex do we feel when we feel super confident and just, like, badass?

[01:01:50] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:51] August: You know? Mm-hmm. It's just, it is such a, a powerful feeling, and not power over anybody, but just, like, this really strong, strong feeling of- I am worthy of this and- Yeah ... how much fun we could have. Like- Mm-hmm ... it just, yeah, it takes away all the ick.

[01:02:12] Dr. Nicole: Right. And hence the creative power. When you're like, "Wow, I'm really in this.

I love who I am. I can make all this stuff," of course that translates into your sex life, right? Like, I'm really powerful. I can make myself feel this way. I can make my partners feel this way. I trust myself. I wanna play. I mean, that is so connected.

[01:02:32] August: It is, yeah. Inseparable, I think.

[01:02:34] Dr. Nicole: Uh-huh. Absolutely. It's been interesting.

I recently just started pelvic floor therapy. Have you ever heard of or done that before?

[01:02:41] August: I haven't done it- Okay ... but I'm familiar. It's great, it seems.

[01:02:45] Dr. Nicole: Fascinating. Fascinating. I... For the listener who's not familiar, it's like intravaginal work in terms of, um, assess- assessing into like when you're, like, holding and really tight in some areas.

And, and that, you know, often a lot of people can come in, um, couple of different things, like maybe you've had a child recently, and so you're going through, like, rebuilding those muscles after birth and everything that that can do. Maybe you've had trauma and you've been really, like, tight and stressed and bracing.

Um, another common experience that she was talking to me about was, like, BV and yeast infections, when you have periods of time where you go through these cycles of your body being in a lot of pain in that area, and then bracing for that. It's been fascinating to, like, actually build that mind-body connection in terms of relaxing.

Maybe you're a stressed out podcaster like me who's holding a lot and don- didn't realize it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's been fascinating to do that sort of like, um, mind-body work of, like, feeling and noticing. And, um, even just in a couple of sessions of doing that, 'cause like it's half I wanna, like, learn for myself, and half also, like, I tell my clients to go do this.

I wanna go, like, figure it, like, what is this like?

[01:03:56] August: Yeah.

[01:03:56] Dr. Nicole: It's fascinating to have, like, a medical professional be inside of you, and then saying like, moving to another area of your vaginal wall and being like, "Okay, what, what does this feel like?" And you take a deep breath and feel that. Like, h- I'm sorry, at least for myself, like I've never fucked myself like that.

Do you know what I mean? Like- Yeah ... I stick the dildo in, I do something. Like, I don't ever just go inside and be like, "Hmm, deep breath. Ha, yeah, that's that feel..." Like, I don't do that. Yeah. And my partners certainly never have in terms of being like, "That slow." So like, it's been fascinating. Like, even that's like cracking open new areas for me of my mind-body connection where I've never been so slow with it all.

Oh, interesting. Has it impacted

[01:04:35] August: your pleasure outside of therapy?

[01:04:44] Dr. Nicole: Yes. In terms of... It, it's, um, when I think about our brain, right? We have so many neuronal pathways, and when you're having a new experience, we experience neur- neuroplasticity. You can make new connections. You can rewire certain pathways that are usually not firing together. And so when I'm having this experience, and rather than it being, you know, a partner dynamic, right?

Rather than it being, like, me trying to get myself off with an orgasm, which is still an area of growth for myself to, like, just touch and not have orgasm as the goal. Like, that's, continually naming that that is an area of exploration, right? So to have this, like, professional space where you're doing that, like, I'm building more, um, mind-body connection in a way that's not performance or, um, expectation-based, and it's truly just breathing and relaxing.

I mean, that is... I can feel how that is translating into my own personal play and my play with partners in terms of feeling more connected and more relaxed in that way.

[01:05:47] August: Oh, that's beautiful.

[01:05:48] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. It's been a trip.

[01:05:52] August: I bet it has. That is, that is so great. I wish it was more of, like, a normal, just part of our-

[01:05:59] Dr. Nicole: I know

[01:05:59] August: health, you know, here. I feel like in the US it's something that's... It seems like it's one of the most beneficial protocols for folks- Mm-hmm ... for so many different reasons.

[01:06:09] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah.

[01:06:10] August: And it comes up as, like, this alternative last resort or something. Yeah. And it's like, why don't we just start there?

[01:06:16] Dr. Nicole: Well, right.

I mean, we could... We- yeah, totally. Right. And so the whole medical industrial complex, like, why did I have to get multiple IUDs put in without any sort of me- pain medication, right? You know, like, it, it's- Mm-hmm ... there's the whole thing right there, right? Is that, like, as a woman, I'm supposed to just be able to take it, and it's a normal amount.

Um, one of my IUDs fully perforated. Ah. And at the time I didn't know that, but I came to my doctor and I was like, "It's really hurting. Like, I think something's wrong." And they had said, "No, that's a normal part of the experience. Usually women have a lot of pain. It's fine." And it was only years later that I got a full scan and they're like, "Hey, just so you know, like, your IUD is not in the right place."

And I found out it had been years that it had perforated. Oh. I know. So yeah, this is a part of why, like, this big complex of, like, patriarchy and males leading science and thinking that women don't need pain medication for these very intense experiences, and then also saying that your pain is normal and writing you off without che- I mean, like, yeah, that's why we don't go to a pelvic floor therapist, 'cause, like, that's just- Totally

normal pain that you're dealing with.

[01:07:24] August: Oh, totally. I've heard from multiple people who said that they learned that sex is supposed to be painful.

[01:07:30] Dr. Nicole: Oh, my heart.

[01:07:31] August: If you have a vulva, that is part of the process, and that has profound impacts on our lives and our experiences. It's just heartbreaking.

[01:07:42] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that, that was definitely an area I struggled with for a long time. And even if I could know that sex should not be painful, I think that next step was really hard for me, of asking for a pause or a stop or a full stop.

[01:08:02] August: Yeah. Was the fear, do you think, was it around not wanting to offend the other person?

That's, that's come up for me, that's why I ask.

[01:08:13] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, yeah, in terms of it not being good enough and, like, you're not liking it or something.

[01:08:17] August: Mm. Yeah, or just even if I... I remember having an experience where I was uncomfortable, but I was concerned that if I asked for a pause, if I said something, that this person would feel-

Offended- Mm ... and maybe defensive or, or just, like, wounded- Mm ... and, you know, just feel rejected.

[01:08:38] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Totally. Totally. And

[01:08:40] August: so instead, I just stuck with what I was doing, and it was not- Right ... enjoyable, so.

[01:08:45] Dr. Nicole: Right. Yeah, I can definitely resonate with that. I think I had this, um, similar to your upbringing of feeling like the woman's body and sexuality is meant to be for the other person, particularly in this image, a male that I'm married to for the one and only for the rest of my life, right?

Like, there's this expectation, and then quite literally I remember my mother telling me that, like, "You are going to give sex to your husband, and that's your job." We'd wa- we'd pass by Victoria's Secret, and she'd be like, "One day you'll buy this stuff so that you can please your husband. Not so that you can feel empowered, not so that you can love your body, but so that you can give your body to your husband."

Oh. Right. Exactly. And so when I would be having these painful experiences, I'd be like, "Well, I'm supposed to give. This hurts, but I'm giving. Okay, I don't wanna stop giving, 'cause then I'm a bad woman," right? It's like-

[01:09:39] August: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's so loaded.

[01:09:44] Dr. Nicole: Right. To being able to now have experiences where where my partners will be giving to me, I orgasm, and then that's the experience.

Yeah. And they love supporting me and being a part of that, and that's the joy, and that's what they want in that moment, is to just give to me, and I can walk away from that being like, "Cool, yeah. Thanks. That was great." Like, happy to, like, really embody that r- like, gift for both of us- Yes ... of what that moment was.

I mean, like, that is such a psychological journey to get from those two spaces.

[01:10:17] August: Oh, totally. How did you feel when your mom said that to you about the lingerie?

[01:10:22] Dr. Nicole: Oh, that was normal. I was like, "Yeah, okay. That makes sense." Okay.

[01:10:24] August: To-do list.

[01:10:25] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. I, I had no, I had no frame of reference otherwise. Again, growing up very conservative.

It was abstinence only, 'cause I did go to a Christian school, so, like, this is nor- like, I didn't even... There was no level, you know, which is a lot of what you see psychologically, is that we will have no frame of reference. Folks who go through abuse, like, will come out expecting that as the norm, because that's your family dynamic and what you saw and what you've experienced.

And so these, like, cultures that we get into where like, yeah, I didn't even bat an eye. I was like, "Yep, Mom, that makes sense. Thanks for telling me."

[01:10:58] August: Yeah. Well, it's also presented- ... as like, "Here's a fork. That's what you eat food with," and, "Here's lingerie. That's what you wear for your husband." Like, it's, it, it's not presented as, like, a question.

You're just like, "Oh, yeah, this is what I do.

[01:11:13] Dr. Nicole: Okay."

[01:11:14] August: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:11:15] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And at the time, I think I was excited, 'cause I was like, "Oh, my mom's talking to me about sex." Like, that felt big, 'cause I was like, "Oh, wow- Sure ... we can talk about it." So I guess there's maybe, like, a, even a spectrum, you know? Um, not that you have to put suffering on a gradient, but I, in my lived experience, I think it would've been worse...

I don't know. Maybe it wouldn't. I don't even know. But it feels in this moment like it would've been worse if she never talked to me about it, where I was like, "At least we can talk about it." Granted, it's in the wrong frame. Sure.

[01:11:42] August: Yeah.

[01:11:42] Dr. Nicole: But we're talking about it. Yeah, that's true.

[01:11:44] August: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's something.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

[01:11:48] Dr. Nicole: Um- But it's still a lot to then unpack, to like, you know, where now I have, like, drawers full of toys for myself. Yeah. Right? Like, that- My younger self could have never imagined, like, who is she?

[01:12:02] August: I know. Isn't that so interesting to think about?

[01:12:05] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:06] August: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I've thought about that too.

Never could I have imagined. Although, I think I would be a little... I, I think I would be delighted. Like, I'd be- Mm ... curious and I'd be like, "Oh, wow." 'Cause I was so curious. But yeah, it's, it's definitely not something that I thought I would go into or get, you know-

[01:12:24] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[01:12:25] August: build my life around in so many ways.

[01:12:26] Dr. Nicole: Totally. Totally. I think my younger self, like, with my queer sides, would be attracted to myself, but also probably scared.

[01:12:34] August: Oh, yeah. You know what I

[01:12:35] Dr. Nicole: mean? Like, like, truly terrified, but also, like, kind of attracted.

[01:12:38] August: Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. That makes total sense to me. Yeah.

[01:12:42] Dr. Nicole: I'm curious for you, when you do connect with your younger self, you know, the part of you that is...

Well, you can pick and choose where you connect with, but maybe the part of you that hadn't orgasmed yet or the part of you that hadn't turned on the lights yet when you're having sex. Are there any words of wisdom or advice that you'd want to share with your younger self?

[01:13:03] August: I think I would wanna tell my younger self at all ages, life is not always going to feel so perplexing.

Like, you're gonna figure things out and you're not an alien.

[01:13:19] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[01:13:20] August: Like, I really felt so obscure. Mm. Like, I felt so different from everybody around me. I felt like there was something wrong with me. And just knowing that that wasn't true, even if I didn't fully feel that yet, I think that would've been really powerful.

And I also think- Pre-orgasm, solo orgasm me, I would en- I would encourage her to go at it a little sooner. Yeah. Like I said, I appreciate the path and where it's led to, and at the same time, I don't even know if I would've had an eating disorder-

[01:13:59] Dr. Nicole: Mm ...

[01:14:00] August: if I had masturbated or self-pleasured. I don't know. Sure.

It's so hard to know. But I, I think I would've just found so much peace in knowing that I am not, I'm not as, quote-unquote, "weird"-

[01:14:14] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[01:14:14] August: as I think I am.

[01:14:16] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:14:16] August: That we are all unique and so much more similar than we realize, and that all the things that you're so worried about. And also, that the public toilet seats are generally fine.

[01:14:30] Dr. Nicole: Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's such a common question. Like, the big question that comes in for folks when they come to therapy is, uh, am I normal and am I a good person?

[01:14:42] August: Yeah. And it's so interesting how much sexuality comes into that idea of am I a good person.

[01:14:49] Dr. Nicole: Huge.

[01:14:49] August: This whole, like, especially for people raised as girls and for women and femmes, I feel like there's so much of this good...

What does good mean?

[01:15:01] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah.

[01:15:02] August: Like, what does it- Oh,

[01:15:03] Dr. Nicole: exactly ...

[01:15:03] August: even mean? Right. Um, so finding that out for yourself is, is really, really impactful.

[01:15:10] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's always a good question. What does good mean, and who profits off of me having that understanding?

[01:15:18] August: Yes. And then you can tap into, like, the really cool, rebellious part of you- Yeah

that I think is so healing. Oh, yeah. I feel like whenever we can feel that grr, like that, "Oh my gosh, you do not tell me what to do," like-

[01:15:31] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm ...

[01:15:32] August: I get to be my own person. Right. I think that that can be so helpful because, as you mentioned- For me, I didn't, I, I feel like anger was a really hard one for me.

[01:15:42] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah.

[01:15:43] August: Yeah, and learning- Yeah, I

[01:15:44] Dr. Nicole: think for a lot of women.

[01:15:45] August: Totally. Yeah. That we have to be quiet and meek and all these things. So yeah, getting comfortable with our rage can be so helpful.

[01:15:54] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah. And when you have consent to play with that, oof. Yes. I love recording with dominatrix. Ooh. I mean, they're some of my favorite conversations.

[01:16:01] August: Yes.

[01:16:02] Dr. Nicole: Who, like, feel comfortable with, like, yeah, people ask me to go into this part of myself and I do it. Like- Yes ... there's a lot there to unpack in terms of the psyche of what it means to, like- Yeah ... ac- access that part of yourself and feel comfortable in giving that to someone when they want it.

[01:16:16] August: Totally.

Yeah, 100%.

[01:16:19] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. Well, it's been such a joy to have you on the podcast today. We've traversed so many good areas, and I really appreciate you being so vulnerable with your story and all the stuff that you've gone through to become, you know, the person that you are today.

[01:16:33] August: Oh, it's been such a pleasure. Yeah.

And thank you for creating this space. It feels so comfortable and- Mm,

[01:16:39] Dr. Nicole: good ...

[01:16:40] August: yeah. I- Good ... really imagine you must be such a good therapist- ... because I just- Yeah ... I love that feeling of when you're with someone and they're really listening to you, and you just feel this total safety and respect, and that's- Mm

that's what I've been feeling, so thank you for that.

[01:16:56] Dr. Nicole: Of course. Such a joy to create that space. And it truly is a lot of, uh... It's a moment of pleasure for me, too, 'cause I'm connected with you, right? It's not just work. Like, I get to actually be in connection with you, and the work I do as a therapist is similar.

Like, I bring my full self into it. It's not just this, like, manualized treatment. Like, I'm there relating with folks, and so it's, it's, uh, beautiful. It's beautiful work. It's difficult work, but it's very beautiful work. And so- Yeah ... yeah, I appreciate you seeing that.

[01:17:28] August: Yeah, for sure.

[01:17:30] Dr. Nicole: Yeah. All right. Well, as we come towards the end of our time, I'm gonna take another deep breath with you.

And I'll ask if there's anything else that you wanna share with the listeners. Otherwise, I can guide us towards our closing question.

[01:17:49] August: I feel ready to move on.

[01:17:51] Dr. Nicole: Great. Okay. So the one question that I ask everyone on the show is, what is one thing that you wish other people knew was more normal?

[01:18:02] August: I love this question so much I'm gonna go with fantasies.

[01:18:09] Dr. Nicole: Ooh, tell me more. Yeah

[01:18:12] August: There's a lot of shame around fantasies. I get so many questions I really keep thinking about blank.

[01:18:21] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[01:18:22] August: What does that mean?

[01:18:23] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah.

[01:18:24] August: And I think it's so important to recognize that our desires are our desires, and whether we act on a fantasy or the fantasy itself is its own erotic experience, that's beautiful.

You know? Mm-hmm. If we're not harming anybody, it's actually really healthy to embrace. I actually remember the first time I allowed myself to fantasize.

[01:18:49] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:18:50] August: So this was in my modeling days, and I was living in New York, and I remember walking into my apartment. Have you seen Ally McBeal?

[01:18:56] Dr. Nicole: Mm-mm.

[01:18:56] August: Show from the '90s.

So it's Calista Flockhart, and there's this scene where she goes into a car wash. And I don't remember the specifics now, but I remember the feeling and these kinda glimpses. Basically, she has sex with somebody in a car wash.

[01:19:12] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[01:19:12] August: And it's so steamy.

[01:19:14] Dr. Nicole: Mm.

[01:19:14] August: And I remember walking in and seeing that it was on the TV, and my roommates were in there, and I started feeling this heat in my body.

[01:19:21] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:19:22] August: And I'm like, "Oh, no. I'm not supposed to, I'm not supposed to think this." Like-

[01:19:26] Dr. Nicole: Mm. Sure ...

[01:19:27] August: I, I felt this sort of, like, guilt about it, that I was getting turned on by it. And then I remembered that I had broken up with someone. I was single, and it would've been great anyway. I didn't, I wasn't there yet.

Mm-hmm. So it was a big step for me to even just give me- myself that permission to, to- Yeah ... just fantasize about it.

[01:19:48] Dr. Nicole: Yeah.

[01:19:48] August: And so for, like, days, I mean, I'd be going around, and suddenly I'd be in that car wash, and it was beautiful. Yeah. It was fun, and it gave me- Yeah ... this, like, secret that I could play with.

And- Mm-hmm ... later I would reflect on that a lot because I thought, "No, that was..." I say my sexuality was dead then. No, it wasn't. It was there.

[01:20:06] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:20:07] August: And every time that we give ourselves permission to let our fantasies flow, I think we do nurture our sexuality, our desires. It helps our- Yeah ... creativity in life.

If we shun ourselves for... And this isn't just sexual fantasies. We also shun ourselves for fantasies about certain foods being good or bad- Oh, yeah ... or-

[01:20:31] Dr. Nicole: Right ...

[01:20:31] August: all of these things.

[01:20:32] Dr. Nicole: Yep.

[01:20:32] August: And there is such freedom in realizing that there is no good and bad, that it's just, it is. And our brain is so cool. Like, I wanna know what's going on in there.

I wanna watch these little- Yeah ... movies. Like, it's so cool- Yeah ... and so exciting. So-

[01:20:49] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm ...

[01:20:50] August: let yourself have the fantasies, and don't feel like you have to figure it out. Right. Like, there's nothing to figure out. Sure, you may choose to act on it or not, depending on what it is, and that's great.

[01:21:02] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:21:03] August: But even that negotiation with yourself is, reflects some shame, you know?

Mm-hmm. So I think it's really important to- Consider how you feel about your own fantasies. Are you allowing them? Are you encouraging them? Do you let yourself have fun in that space? I think-

[01:21:24] Dr. Nicole: Yeah ...

[01:21:24] August: erotica can be great for that, audio erotica.

[01:21:27] Dr. Nicole: Mm-hmm.

[01:21:28] August: But yeah, fantasies are normal.

[01:21:30] Dr. Nicole: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And I know so many of my clients and listeners have tracked with me from the journey out of purity culture and all of that. And so I wanna share that the parts of our brain that fantasize, it often gets really restricted if you come from a culture that said any sort of thought around sexuality is sin, or any sort of thought around this would be cheating, or all that sort of stuff.

We really shut down that muscle. It gets atrophied, right? And you can't use that muscle when you don't use it all the time, right? And so I say that as an opportunity of, um, understanding, normalizing, and also a moment of hope to know that, again, the brain does have neuroplasticity. New experiences, you make new connections.

It's also why I love working with psychedelics, right? 'Cause it increases that specifically. But when you're doing novel experiences in general, you can make those new connections, and the more that you practice that, the stronger the muscle gets. And so I can, you know, hear my younger self who's saying like, "Yeah, but fantasies are so hard.

I don't even have any. Like, where do I start?" Right? You can really look at a lot of content, like you were with the movie, right? This thing sparked this here, or you hear a friend tell a story, you read a book, right? Whatever that is. And then allowing yourself to slowly start to think about more. And then again, it's like a practice.

You don't just learn how to, you know, ride the bike, do some BMX off-roading the first day. You start with the training wheels, you keep riding, you go onto rougher terrain, right? And so I say that to folks as, like, an opportunity to acknowledge that, like, if fantasy feels hard right now, please know that's not the end, right?

You can do neuronal work and re-pattern your brain to really get those muscles going, right? And then once you do, like, please dream big, wide. Fantasy is that space where it's in your internal mind, like no one else is there. Like, really enjoy that. And it's okay if that's different than your desire, right?

I've always had this fantasy of, um, being, like, a guitar player who's, like, killing it on stage. Now, do I actually want that? No, because I don't know how to play the guitar. The amount of time it would take to do that fantasy and bring it to life, like I don't actually desire that fantasy, but I really, like, love it.

I'm, like, super queer on stage, like rocking it out. You know, probably very, like, stoic, like everyone wants to see what I'm feeling, but I'm just, like, hitting the beat. You know? Like, I don't know. But, like, I don't actually want that. But it's a fantasy I have, right? And so I think the same thing with sexuality is, like, you can have these really huge, wild fantasies that in real life you don't desire at all, and that's okay.

It's fine. It's play. It's all play. Yes.

[01:24:05] August: It's so fun. Mm-hmm. And it's also fun, if you feel open to it, talking to partners about each other's fantasies. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love that. It's

[01:24:13] Dr. Nicole: so fun. Yeah. It's my favorite thing to do with my friends at brunch, right? When we're in a space where we can.

[01:24:18] August: Yes. Oh, that is a fun brunch.

[01:24:21] Dr. Nicole: It is a very fun brunch. Fantasy brunch. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, August, it's been such a joy to have you on this show. I'm sure everyone is dying to know where they can find you, all of your content, your podcast. Where can people find you?

[01:24:34] August: Oh, sure. So augustmc laughlin.com is kind of a good hub for everything.

McLaughlin is M-C laugh L-I-N. And Girl Boner Radio, wherever folks are listening to this show. It's three words. Don't put a space in Girl Boner or it won't come up. Yeah. Um, but yeah, those are the best places. I have a bunch of articles I've written and different books I have. My first book was a psych thriller.

I've written- Cool ... three sexuality books, and I love connecting with folks, so I'd love to hear what- folks are thinking about and fantasizing about if they feel like sharing. Yeah. And I'm always seeking more true stories for my podcast.

[01:25:13] Dr. Nicole: Love that.

[01:25:13] August: Orgasm stories are especially popular, and you can submit to share your story, and anonymity is fine if people want to share without sharing who they are, and I can also disguise voices a little bit.

So it's fun. Yeah. If you have that desire, reach out to me at my website.

[01:25:29] Dr. Nicole: Lovely. Lovely. I'll have all of that linked in the show notes below, so listeners, you can go find all of August's content right there. And again, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Such a pleasure. Dear listener, thank you so much for tuning in to Modern Anarchy.

Thank you for sharing this episode with your friends, with your lovers, with your community. Truly, it means so much to me, and I am so grateful that you are here. If you are wanting to release jealousy in your non-monogamous dynamics and step into compersion and pleasure-filled connection, you can read my book, The Psychedelic Jealousy Guide, for free on my website.

There you will also find so many other free resources, including worksheets on how to clearly communicate and set commitments and boundaries within your non-monogamous dynamics and other ways to practice clear communication about your sexual desires so that you can step into your most pleasure-filled sex and relationships.

So head on over to modernanarchypodcast.com to find all of those free resources, and I look forward to seeing you next week