Welcome to Modern Anarchy, the podcast featuring real conversations with conscious objectors to the status quo. I'm your host, Nicole. On today's episode, Love and Relationship Coach and psychotherapist Eduardo joins us for a conversation all about a new paradigm of healing and spirituality. Together we talk about integrating the transpersonal within Western modalities of therapy, falling spiritual breadcrumbs, and leaning into the beauty of our imperfection. This is such a lovely conversation with Eduardo. I resonated so much so with a lot of his journey of trying to navigate how to work in this space of having gone through a Western education that is lovely in many ways, but also does not acknowledge the full picture of what it means for humans to be in their own spirituality, finding health and meaning in this world.
This is definitely something that as you tune into the podcast, I'm going to be talking about more and more. This Western model of psychology asks us to diagnose an individual with a problem, a disorder, when I just want to ask the bigger questions of is it really that person or is it the systemic environment that they've been in that has restricted their ability to have resources or the relational environment that they've been in where maybe their parents didn't have the emotional awareness or the availability to be there for them? Or is it the generational trauma that has occurred for generations before them? All of these are important questions to be asking because the problem does not reside in the individual themselves.
It is much larger than that. Obviously there is a self that experiences all of these things and we have some sort of autonomy in this world to decide how we want to show up. But a lot of what we come out to be is a result of our systems, is a result of our family structures, is a result of the culture.
And so when we're diagnosing people with these disorders, I just think it's a problematic notion when in reality it's much bigger than that. So how do we, Eduardo and I, other healers in this space, learn to use the education that we have from Western thinking but also be cautious of the ways that it enacts colonial and other problematic views of humanity? I think like Eduardo said, that's going to be a lifelong journey and I hope all of you listeners out there that are tuning in will enjoy hearing how I tried to struggle and grapple with this as I'm starting my own nonprofit with sex and relationship education. And yeah, it's an interesting game, one of the other podcast guests and I had talked about it, Yoli, like how do you be in this world of capitalism and not of it, right?
This is a tricky question that I think I will keep exploring probably for a lifetime. But that being said, there is also a lot of beautiful nuggets here that Eduardo shares about his own journey coming into spirituality and he had used the word flirting with some of the initial signs of spirituality and then stepping into it on a much deeper level and finding just a better experience of life through this. So Eduardo, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your wisdom and expertise with all of the listeners here today.
Y'all tune in. Well, it's nice to meet you. Do you have any questions about the podcast, about me before we start? Maybe I don't know if you just want to give me like your usual like elevator speech. Sure, sure, sure, sure.
I mean, so my elevator speeches will chat for like an hour, 50 minutes. I mean, there's no rules, no necessarily any direction that we have to go in. My expertise is in relationships and sexuality, right? So that's tend to what I have more to talk about, but also, you know, happy to talk about anything in any direction that really you want to take the conversation. Yeah. All right, well, I, yeah, I don't have like any expectations and I'm just ready to see what arises. Sure, sure, sure, sure. So how would you introduce yourself first?
I know, I know, take your time. I mean, so I guess I would say that I am the son of immigrants, of Mexican immigrants. I am a licensed psychotherapist and social worker in the state of Colorado. And I am also a love and relationship coach. So I guess that's kind of me on like this professional front. But then again, there's so many layers to people, right? Yes. Which is why I like to ask that question and leave it intentionally open as hell, right?
Because I'm like, people answer it on all different sorts of capacities. And I like to like just see you Yeah, for sure. That's a lot of different avenues that we could probably embark on chat about.
Is there anyone in particular that really calls to you that you'd like to explore and conversation together? Well, I like bounce back and forth between using the word healer. So I guess that's also a big part of like the work that I do that's different is like kind of, I guess my spiritual path. Yeah, I don't know if you want to ask around like what my trajectory has been, how I got to what I do, what I do, I don't know.
Sure. I mean, if there's a story there, I really like to keep the space for, you know, like I already take up enough space, I direct the whole podcast into myself. So I like to take this like step back and like, whatever it is that you want to talk about whatever it is you want to share with the world, like I'm really happy to hold that space for that dialogue.
Yeah. So it's seeing, I feel like my life has been like major transition probably since COVID. I think that where I'm at right now, in regards to like, I guess what I do is I started the shift from being like quote unquote conventional, and the work that I do, you know, like getting the Western education degrees, going to the licensure, and having like the sign on your door and like things like that.
I very much have shifted from wanting that to like doing something that's maybe less conventional. And I'm still in the process. And who knows, maybe I'll always be in the process, right?
I don't know. I feel like I'm guessing I'm not the only one that's going through this encounter or this experience. And I do think that to some degree, I think that some of my work is to like help others or like help mentor others or give them some nuggets around, because it's there isn't like the terrain. So I feel so new and so fresh that almost like people, especially, you know, we're undergoing this huge paradigm shift right now. And we're being cast to recreate and rebuild different structures and systems. And I kind of feel like I am in that path. I'm kind of creating something different. And I'm kind of building it as I go along. Yeah, you got to tell me more. What are what is this new paradigm that you're in, where in, and what are you creating?
Gosh, good question. Well, I guess for me, it's been even just like a paradigm shift around like money and like career and what is that one she do? A lot of my work is in the nonprofit and community agency realm. And I personally got to a point, I think this is a very common story. It's like, you know, you eventually burnt out or like at the end of the day, like there are a lot of facets of a lot of a lot of jobs out there that are just not sustainable. And I think especially in the helping professions, I think that we when we encounter like these slumps or, you know, these barriers or we're just finding it's like no matter how much yoga we're doing or how much soft care we're doing, like something isn't working. And I think that what we tend to do in this individual society is that we internalize like something's going wrong. Therefore, it must be my fault.
Right. So I think for me, it started with kind of realizing that some of these systems that I was partaking in some jobs that I had, even though I, you know, they're great people, like good intentions. I learned a lot about my skills. Like at the end of the day, like I had to come to terms with how being in this in these spaces, it was not serving me. It was not like my highest if you want to cut my higher self.
Right. Not even like half of what I knew my potential or my potentiality was. So yeah, I guess long story short. So I guess for me, in regards to like my career and my professional trajectory, so I went from working to nonprofits.
Yeah. And then in grad school, it was when kind of the idea of maybe like private practice was a way out. And then I started my private practice. And then even then I found that I was kind of it was definitely for me, private practice was more sustainable.
But still I was and I am finding that, you know, I still have clients and my private practice, but there are certain pieces that I'm trying to shift and just find some more sustainable ways of living and also like of helping people. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So then I mean, what is that looking like for you then? What are you envisioning? Yeah. So I mean, I don't know.
I'm in the process. Yeah. It's interesting because, you know, as mental health practitioners, what we do, for the most part, you know, depending on each day, like it's pretty regulated. We get a certain kind of education. And I think for me, part of my process has also been, I guess I'll say it this way, like allowing for the trans person to come in for the ancestral. So as of late, I have really been developing, for instance, I've been initiated into the mind priesthood and, you know, that it's different from like, you know, I'm learning a lot of healing modalities and like a lot of stories and rituals that according to, if you want to see it from like certain Western perspectives, like it's pathology.
It's not evidence-based. It's like, like for instance, like the idea of like seeing things, right? It's like, it's associated with things like schizophrenia. So even in that sense, I'm kind of, even though I'm doing this whole Western thing, I guess I'm trying to figure out how to integrate like the shamanic, if you want to call it that, or, you know, the trans-rational, the trans-personal, because it's very much been a part of my own healing journey. Like as much as I didn't want to, like there's just certain pieces that kept showing up that I had to like, come to terms with. Like even how like I am a part of like a lineage of healers. And yeah, and even just like kind of processing and digesting how like, it was something that was, you know, because of the colonization and all the things, like how like my immediate family like has maybe lost some, lost touch of that, and kind of being in a place where I'm trying to like piece it together and be like, my family, like they might, they might not even know, but like, I definitely see like ways in which they, there's something about how they show up in the world that is very much like connected to like a healing lineage. For instance, my mother, like she's, she always remembers her dreams, right? And I think every country, not just the Native Americans, but like, I think to some degree, like at some point in every culture, there was like a medicine that was practiced around interpreting dreams, right? Which I guess with Westerners, it eventually converted, I guess, into like, human psychology, right?
Or Indian analysis, or interpretation. Yeah, I feel like I've just, I've said a whole lot there. So you did. Yeah, you did. I mean, but I think it sounds like you're trying to find ways to kind of bridge the Western thinking with your spirituality, which is frequently disconnected and like shut off from like the rational versus the spiritual.
And like, how can you find a way to integrate both with your experience as a psychotherapist and with your personal experience with healing? Yeah. And I think it's very much kind of what we're tasked to do, like in this era, right? The same ages, I think it's like the integration of the masculine and the feminine, right? The feminine being the intuitive, that which has been pretty much like disintegrated or eliminated by violence, right? And a lot of ways, I guess I kind of, maybe I'm like this representation of this fusion, even just like culturally, you know, being what some people call it mestizo or like, yeah, being a descendant of both Spanish and indigenous blood, right? There's like, even within like my own develop identity development process, I spend this need to integrate, because it can be easy to want to like banish the side, like acknowledge the side that for me, like the Spanish side, right, the colonizers and the brutalization that they perpetrated. And for others, it's the other side of the coin where like, they're really ashamed of the indigenous, right?
Yeah. I mean, and how do you, how do you connect those? How do you hold space for both of those? And yeah, bring them together.
Yeah. So it seems like it's kind of, it's manifested in a very like, individual, personal like level in regards to like my own identity, but also like, in a broader sense, it's also, I guess what I'm tasked or I'm trying to do professionally in regards to like, the way that we engage in healing, the way that we engage in eating making, as you know, this contemporary quote unquote, postmodern society. Would you be willing to share more about your own personal journey and how spirituality and these aspects have played through in your own healing? Sure. Yeah, where does that start?
Let's see. So I guess I want to kind of think of this chronologically, I would say that the first thing I could, well, I guess, you know, there's like the trauma, the traumatic experiences that come from young age, the archetype of the healer, you know, usually the story of the healer involves some, you know, some difficult trials and tribulations that they had to go through that, you know, maybe serve as their initial initiation, and then once they've kind of conquer that, you know, there's growth that happens, just getting that happens. Yeah. So I guess I don't know how I want to get into like my childhood trauma. I think in a sense, you know, the adverse experience that we encounter, and they very much are an initiation. Certainly. Yeah. I'm here to hold space if you want to talk about it.
And if it also feels those two personal in a public setting, like I also got that. Yeah. Yeah, I'm also thinking like, okay, like what's relevant here?
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I grew up, I guess, for the most part, I guess for me, my parents are immigrants. I came to the US when I was three. And yeah, this is tough one, because I don't know how much I should disclose about family matters, but. Whatever feels good to you, yeah.
Yeah. I guess long story short, like given certain relationship dynamics, like I guess I would say that I grew up with a lot of complex trauma. Yeah, and I guess, you know, microaggressions that eventually tend to weigh like, like I identify as queer. So like growing up like person of color, queer. And then also in like family systems that weren't maybe the healthiest of times. So, you know, there's that.
And then coupled with, yeah, going to college as a first generation college student and predominantly white institutions in America is a traumatic experience. Mm-hmm. I'm just gonna say that, I take late January, clearly.
Yeah. So I guess for me in regards to my healing journey, I would say that my healing, I started to take my healing journey more seriously, maybe under my undergrad. So I studied architecture.
Some of my degree was in like environmental design and I minor in ethnic studies. And at the time, the program I was part of, for me felt like a very toxic, classist experience. You know, a lot of microaggressions on a daily basis. And it was also my first time leaving like my neighborhood, which was predominantly low income, you know, Latino, Mexican American immigrants. I had a lot of enriching experiences in my undergrad. I was introduced to like a lot of social justice movements. I began to cultivate my critical consciousness in my undergrad. You know, I met a lot of amazing professors and mentors. And at the same time, I had a very difficult undergraduate experience.
I was close to dropping out several times. Yeah. Like I had many existential crises. Mm-hmm. And I barely, like I feel like I barely like survived and graduated honestly.
Wow. So what made it difficult honestly as well was that I wasn't taking care of my mental health. Even though the school offered free therapy, like for me it's a saloon tube taboo. And it wasn't until after undergrad that I eventually started my own therapy. And I've been pretty much in therapy like 10 plus years now. And ultimately that's why I decided to be a therapist.
Sure, sure. So yeah, it was very much, it was having like navigate through my undergraduate experience that for me it was very clear that I needed some sort of, I don't know, I needed something to recover from that experience. I was 22.
I was like, okay. So I was four years in this, you know, difficult, traumatic environment. So who knows, maybe it's gonna take me four years to recover.
So I actually created like a time, like a recovery timeline for my undergraduate program. And I got into yoga. And then how old was I?
I think I was either 22 or 23. Where I got a job as an admissions counselor at a Buddhist university. And they, you know, their thing was like, they're heavy on like permaculture and like using the environment. So like keel and like, there was, there's pretty much, it wasn't like a requirement per se. There was pretty much this expectation that if you were a student there or work there, you were probably Buddhist and you were gonna meditate. So it was there that I was introduced to meditation, to mindfulness and to different Tibetan Buddhist lineages. Yeah, and it was, so I was doing yoga, I was meditating.
And I would say that that's kind of where like, you know, the healing process started for me. And then ultimately, like in my 20s, like I got super into yoga. I did my teacher training at some point. And then I got into other things like Reiki, Qigong. And then let's see, also in my late 20s, I started apprenticing to Burandera, who was still one of my mentors. And then last year, I actually, I got initiated into my imprisethood.
Yeah, which is the most recent one. So I guess I'd like to ask like, the listener who doesn't know what that even entails, how would you begin to describe that journey? For the mind-present? Yeah, or whatever. I mean, there's a lot of different pieces there, the spirituality, it seems like that's the most recent. But I mean, I think, I think we could spend time just talking about all those pieces of what that even means. I think a lot of people here in this conversation wouldn't know what even like, yeah, Reiki, you know, like all these pieces. So there's something about that that I would like to highlight.
And it's, you know, I called it like the trans-racional, trans-personal. Like there are things that happen that we can't quantify or we can't even rationalize sometimes, you know, that are hard to articulate. And I think the medical model, you know, in the US is very much kind of because there are certain pieces of it that you can't really quantify. Like it's kind of like, I don't know, the medical models kind of seen as like bullshit, pseudo-science, you know. But I think as a person engaging in a deep healing journey, I mean, it's like, it's like you can't help but notice certain things.
And to some degree, like you get to a point where like those things like pretty much force you to like, to see them interact. And I'm saying this because I think it's a precursor to the mind path. Because the mind path, there's a lot of aspects to it or even how it, you know, one engages in healing that are very like hard to explain or that aren't quantifiable or you can't use like reason or logic, which is a very Western tool. So I think for me, before I got to the place of being initiated, I think I went to like this whole journey of like flirting with certain elements or like with accepting them, coming to terms with like my own path. Because I think at some point, I'll probably up until like my mid to late twenties, I didn't want to engage in this path.
Yeah. And I kept like going through difficult experiences and like for most of my life, I wanted to live this quote unquote normal like sedentary lifestyle. I wanted to drink on the weekends and like, you know, do what people my age tend to do, right? Even though I knew that, you know, I had this other calling that was like, hey, like.
Yeah. And for me, it took like falling hard, falling flat on my face several times to be like, okay. Like the sedentary path that I'm like, I want to live.
It's not for me and I need to, I need to try out the other path. It's for me. So it became very clear. Yeah. And it was a process like it's still a process of like seeing it or like looking into it was like, for instance, I would have, I would have to, I would dream something. And then a few days later, the thing that I trapped was like happening in real life. And so like, that's how it started for me or.
Sure, sure. Or just, you know, like, like little like coincidences or certain drifters moments associated with something that I was like, I was doing right or wrong. So that's kind of how it started for me. And when it did, I was very much in this place because I didn't know, like, I didn't have a mentor at the time. I didn't know what was going on. I was like, am I going insane?
Like, what's wrong with me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it started to show up in multiple places, right? The serendipity, the dreams. Yeah, just things, even like the way that I got like my job at the Buddhist university, it was like the job came like right when I started looking.
Like literally I had a professor, a mentor for my undergrad. He was an African-American woman who like I hadn't heard from her in years. And she was like, hey, like I came across someone who like worked with you the other day and they said that you might be looking for work. She was like FYI, I'm like the director of an admissions department at the school.
You might want to check it out. And that was literally the week that I like started job hunting. Wow, so it just showed up at your door. Yeah, so yeah, I guess the path, if you pay attention, there is all sorts of like, a friend calls them spiritual breadcrumbs.
I love that, yeah. But you were hesitant to follow the path. Yeah, I was resistant for sure. And also, I grew up very Catholic and like there's just certain things that like my family to this day, like they don't believe. Yeah. Or things that simply, you know, because of colonization, they're considered, you know, to be witchcraft or dangerous, right?
Right. But yeah, ultimately, I think it was for me, I just got to the point where like, I was trying to live a certain life that wasn't for me. And like I just kept getting like knocked down really hard. I got to the point where I was like, okay, like, like I have to explore like this healing thing that, you know, I'm curious about. And yeah, like sure enough, like slowly, you know, it's taken time, like I, I continue to like, you know, to nourish, to look into my meditation. Like I went from probably being able to meditate like a minute to 30 seconds to like now, like I would love to attend like a two week meditation retreat.
I feel like, I feel like if I didn't have any bills, I would totally go meditate in the woods for like two months. Sure, sure, sure, sure. And just let go.
Right. But it's been, it's been a process to like, to cultivate different skills. I think the big one that I'm still learning is like, cultivating one's intuition. Ah, oh, you and me both. Yeah. Tell me about it.
I need to learn too. So tell me more. Yeah. Learning to trust my gut like that's still like, I've come a long way and it's, you know, it's, I don't know, I feel like it's going to be a lifelong journey without one.
Sure, sure, sure, sure. I mean, it's, I feel like it's hard. I mean, it's another one of the parts of like, the word that was coming up for me was like surrender, right?
In that, that moment to the spiritual bread comes to the, you know, signs in your gut that are coming up to surrender and trust that can be really scary for a lot of different reasons. Yeah. Yeah.
And I think for me, that's also been, you know, it's been a journey like learning how to surrender. Like, yeah, because it's scary, right? Especially if you grew up in like conditions of scarcity or like being told to like not trust, right? Yeah, it can be hard to trust the universe. I think initially, but it does get easier.
I know that when I was transitioning out of doing like community mental health to doing private practice work. Yeah. It was difficult for me because I kept getting in the way and like my scarcity narratives were very heavy.
You know, there was fear, right? Of like, like I hate this agency job. Like it's like I come home crying every day and like I've never been so depleted in my energy. But, you know, at the end of the day, like I get a paycheck, like my income is predictable. I know what I'm getting into, even though it's horrible and it's not for me, I know what it is.
And there's some of that. So I guess I'm saying this because for me, I think that was where I had huge lessons in like learning how to trust the universe. I know, like that was a time where it's like, like I knew like I had to leave the organization. Like things were to a point where it just wasn't tolerable for me. And like for me, it got to that point where it was like, you're gonna have to jump like regardless.
It's like, you have no choice. And for me then, it was, I very much asked the universe to be kind, you know, to show me, to show me like a past of like the suffering, you know? And by then, like I was, I already knew enough about spirituality and like how things happen. And like, you know, like, like I very much knew that I had to make this week, right? And I think what I did is I was very like in my prayers and in my meditations, like I would ask the universe to like, to essentially to validate like the decisions that I would make, right? For instance, like, I don't know, like if I needed to, I don't know, buy my or like register my LLC that week, like I was gonna get some sort of validation by the universe that I was doing a good job. And, you know, like who knows, maybe like the validation was like sitting in traffic and seeing, you know, the current friend of you, like seeing the sticker that say it's like you're doing a good job. For like giving you those, you know, those nuggets. Moments, yeah. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, the small little signs. So for me, it was very much, I learned a lot from transitioning into my private practices because I very much had a trust.
I had a trust and I also had to build my practice like as I was going along, because I did not have like thousands of dollars saved up to like buy an office and to buy all the things that you need. Right, right, right. But it seems like that leap of faith was one where you were held and it thrived, right? Yeah, and it was, you know, it was where I had to trust my God, even though it felt horrifying, right?
Mm-hmm. So I guess for me, ever since doing, having done that leap and having gotten the validation from the universe, I feel like I've gotten a lot better. And I'm in a much better place now in my life. Like, yeah, I'm just so grateful. Like I'm like another whole different human being and I'm so, like my nervous system feels so much more lighter and that's what it did back then.
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. And at the same time, it sounds like if I was hearing you correctly that there's also like this weight that comes with the private practice that isn't sustainable? I guess for me, so this is part of my personal journey is I'm kind of reckoning with like, how much of my journey or my, I don't know if you want to call it a mission, even though it has like Christian connotations, right? Sure, purpose. So for me, it came to like kind of, and I'm still kind of reckoning like what it is, what it really is dynadestine to do. Yeah. And I still, I don't know that in the long term, like therapy is going to be the thing.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm continuing to cultivate my spiritual, I want to call them shamanic like gifts. So I'm thinking that part of my work is actually going to be more like more spiritual than what a traditional therapeutic container can offer. Sure, sure. So tell me more about that. How do you see that coming through?
Or what do you hope? You know, like I want to learn about your spiritual side that yeah, I don't know necessarily, right? I'm in a similar world of getting a Western education. No, I teach yoga. That's probably about the closest I get to any of this.
So I'd love to hear. Yeah. And I don't want to talk bad about Western education. I mean, I should have a little bit.
We should. Some of it is pretty horrible. It's pretty. Yeah. Patriotical.
Yeah. But, you know, within my clinical training, so I got my master's in social work. I got MFT training as well. And now I'm getting a PhD. So some of my Western clinical training, like it was helpful and it is for me, even though there's parts that are problematic, like learning about secure attachment is super helpful.
Sure. I agree. Especially in the work that I do with couples and people, you know, strapping with relationships. But I do think that we need to integrate, like other aspects of healing that have been super, what words would I use? I guess for me, something holds validity if people have been using it for thousands of years. Even this concept of like validity in relation to like scientific pursuits, it's so new.
It's not even like 500 years old, right? And people really have to like look into like how processes of empirical validity also came about during colonial projects. Sure. So I guess I'm trying to figure out how to integrate, like what's good from the Western, like what's helpful with that, that's also helpful from like what our ancestors did for thousands and thousands of years, maybe millions of years.
Mm-hmm. So what I see maybe like in the long term is, I think I love to mentor, and I do think that part of the work that lies ahead of me serves in some sort of teacher role. And I, yeah, I wouldn't mind even just having like my own, I don't know, organization where like people come and like I teach them like how to give a healing, for instance. Or even just like, I think there's something that I'm still trying to figure out and it's just how to like bring back a community element to our healing process.
Sure, sure, yeah, absolutely. And it's because I've seen a mentor in mine like do this, like I found a very amazing sense of community with her and just like the offerings and like, you know, the things that she offered, whether it was like having ceremony or like teaching a class on something. So I wish to have something similar.
Mm-hmm. You know, that shows people like, this is how you can liberate yourself from the various shackles that we all have been conditioned and programmed into. Like this is how you can heal your body, your mind, your spirit. This is how you can uplift and support the rest of humanity because we need it.
We very much need it. Right, and thinking about systems, right? I mean, finding that community is where you can thrive, grow, be changed, challenged, find connection. I mean, that is a whole piece of the equation, you know? Like even thinking about therapy, right?
You have one session a week, maybe more, right? Like that is one moment compared to the multitude of other systems that us and all of our clients exist in. So yeah, I think trying to integrate a way where we can find community, community healing and community connection is a whole piece of the healing equation that's really left out in a lot of our current healing modalities. Yeah, even in changing systems around time and paradigms around time. Sure, yeah, what do you mean? So this might get a little abstract here.
Take me down a rabbit hole, please. So time has aided in coloniality. To some degree, like how we engage in time has been socially constructed. So current paradigms that we have with time and money, for instance, are that we have to clock in at a certain time, we have to work at a certain time, we have to produce at a certain time, we have to produce at a certain quantity. Like these are paradigms around time and money that are no longer sustainable, that are crumbling. We've seen this with COVID, right?
There's several examples. And I do think that we're kind of in this time where those paradigms, those ways of seeing and interpreting of showing up in the world around that have to do with time and work, like they're crumbling, they're not sustainable. And I do think that part of my work or what I'm trying to figure out for myself is how to engage in healthier paradigms around time and money, for instance. It's like, I don't want to work 50 hours a week. I don't want to work 40 hours a week. I don't even know if I want to work 30 or 20.
Maybe 20 would be ideal for me. Yeah, yeah. So I'm trying to find systems where I can pursue my passion. I can do what my calling is. I can do what I love.
And I can get paid well for it. And I can also have time for family. I can also have time for my loved ones. I can have time to cultivate community. And I do think that that's the paradigm that we're slowly shifting in, whether we agree, whether we're on board with this or not, like these old paradigms are crumbling. So I do hope that I am part of a wave of people who are trying to figure out, OK, what does life look like after capitalism? Yeah, right.
Because maybe your whole purpose isn't to make money and to work? Yeah. Just a question.
I mean, you're spot on. I mean, there used to be times where people would work seven days, longer shifts. And there was a huge paradigm shift to even just the five day a week work week with 40 hours. And that was a whole paradigm shift from before that, where we worked even more. And so, yeah, thinking about COVID, thinking about where we're at as a society, I think there might be a lot of shifting to, yeah, what is my work-life balance? Because I think a lot of people don't have that. Yeah.
And in order to create that shift, we also need to do to our work and like healing our bodies and our minds, right? Yeah. Like, like we have such a scarcity mentality. Yeah.
I'm guilty of like it's I feel like that's going to be like lifelong work for me. Sure. To trust.
To trust and like also recognizing the worth and the value that I have within these systems. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I 100 % agree. What does that mean for you? Gosh. I think for me, it means standing in my power, regardless of where I am or who I'm around.
Yeah. For me, it requires a lot of courage. Because, you know, as a brown queer, like fat person, like people don't like it when I'm standing in my power. People don't like it when I take up space and certain, you know, people get nasty when like, I mean, I'm thinking of like the times I've like taken a flight, like I've been on the red plane. Like, like I've had like white women like throw tantrums because I have a nicer seat than they do.
Wow. So I think it does to some degree, it requires for me to consistently like show up in my power to walk gracefully, regardless of like the tantrums that people are throwing. And I think if anything, I really want people to hold on to that because we're in a place as these systems continue to crumble, like people who benefit from these systems and who want to hold them in place, we're gonna see their inner three year old come out even more than we have. Like if you thought that stuff was bad around like Karen's policing and like that type of stuff, like it's gonna, I do think that we're gonna see a lot more tantrums along the way.
Yeah, yep, 100%. And how do you continue to take that space that you deserve to have and also keep yourself safe knowing that those tantrums are going to happen? You know, this is where some of my like psychological and therapeutic training can be beneficial or instrumental in like setting energetic boundaries, setting boundaries with people and like not internalizing what other people are projecting at you, right? It took me a long time to learn this, but we have to set boundaries with everybody and everything like we just do.
And also I think, so there's two pieces to this. When people look at us funny, when people talk badly of us, if we don't set boundaries, we can internalize, right? And we can create shame, we can create internalized oppression, we can internalize our narratives and be like, oh, like I'm horrible, like I must not exist. Like we need to create those boundaries and realize that we do not have to take on people's projections of us, right?
So that's one thing. And then the other piece for me, I think as a highly empathic spiritual person, I don't know, you wanna call me an empath or healer or whatever, I constantly have to remind myself that I am not a receptacle for other people's shit. I've seen people who are like therapists, for instance, who when they're in public, they don't tell other people they're therapists because it's like this assumption that you can just dump like on people. So I think that's another big one is also reminding yourself again, this goes back to reminding yourself of your power and your value and being careful of what energy you let in how you take on other people's energy.
Sure, sure. I mean, I think those are both very powerful things to even talk a little bit more about. I mean, the first piece you had mentioned of like when people are projecting out to you and saying things about you, learning to not internalize that, that is tricky work first. I mean, I think it's hard to not hear that and think that somehow that person knows something about me. Like I'm with you in the sense of like, in our training and understanding part of what we learn, I think is like the lens that other people have, the perspective that other people have and how that is uniquely theirs and it gets projected out onto you, right?
But I think before going through this training and stuff like that was not something that I had. I always felt like, oh, that person must know the real truth about me, right? And then we start to identify with what's being projected onto us, which is even scarier. And it's like a lot of the times like those people don't even know you.
I know. That's another thing I think being people, like people of color, people from marginalized backgrounds is, like we've always been scapegoated. But I even like intuitive people, like thinking back, like thinking about which ones, like, like certain people have always been scapegoated. So like it's easy. And essentially like I'm thinking about like how people assume that they can direct their funky energy towards me, right?
Because I'm the only person of color, I'm the only person who doesn't present in a certain way. Right. Whereas, you know, it's hard to receive that. And some of it can feel really unsettling. I just a few days ago, like I was at the gym and like this woman was very, very aggressive to me for no reason. And it like, like it shook me.
Like I was off-filter like the whole day, right? Right, right. Like it can be difficult sometimes. But I think we need to continue to like push against that. Like, and it might not be easy, right? And I think a lot of what I'm speaking to requires some degree of like courage and warriorship.
Yeah, the warriorship word that hits for me. Yeah, Resma, like he talks about like the somatic feeling of like quaking, right? Some things are so unsettling that they make you quake, right? But we need to allow for the quaking. We need to allow for that energy to move through us, right?
Sure, sure, sure, sure. And that's where the work is. Yeah, which is whatever sort of healing modality allows it to move through you. Like how do you move that energy? Once you know you have the unsettling occurrence.
I mean, I know breath, other stuff like that, but like how do you move the energy? Well, it's hard because we, first of all, I think we have to open ourselves to it, which we don't want to do often. Right? It's like, what yoga and what meditation do is they soften you up. They turn you into sponges, right? If you're not careful, right?
You become a sponge of everybody's energy. But I think what that is, we have to, softening is part of the process. Having an open heart is part of the process.
And when it happens, like we have to allow the stuff to move through, right? That's where like grieving work is so important, right? That's where processing or emotion is important. Allowing ourselves to feel the quaking, to feel the pain, and allow for it to move, to get the hell out, right?
Right, right. Which I think what you said earlier of even like thinking about the paradigms of work and capitalistic structure that we have now, like sometimes there's just no space for that sort of processing. You know, I got to go work tomorrow. I got shit to do tomorrow.
You know, I don't have time to sit and talk about this, right? So I think a lot of our society is holding so much pain that is unprocessed, and not flowing through, right? Because of the structures that we currently have that just keep building on of like various pressures. Right, that's why slowing down can be a radical act. Which for me, I find it funny, right? That doing nothing is so radical and revolutionary nowadays. And a capitalistic structure, hell yeah, that's radical. Yeah, because it's not, I'm not producing.
Oh no, where is my self worth? Yeah. I'm also curious as a fellow empath, right? If we use that word, like what do energetic boundaries mean for you? How do you protect yourself energetically?
Asking for help for me, you know, like how, how do you do this work? So for me, that's where spirituality comes in. Thankfully, I am in a place in my spiritual journey where I have so many tools that I like to set an intention in the morning. Like, so for me, it consists of saying some sort of prayer, either in the morning or before going to bed. Because the way that I perceive going to bed is that I'm, I'm going from one life to another life, or one for it to another. So I don't also need to protect my energy here.
Like I also need to protect my energy in the dream spaces that I go and share. Sure, sure. So some things that I do is I call, I work with Archangel Michael a lot. And just FYI, like Archangels existed before any Christian religion or institution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just like a lot of people.
elements. I might piss off some Christians here or Catholics, but do it. But you know, archangels were also something that was appropriated by other traditions and that existed.
But anyways, that's a classic, classic colonialism. So what I do, what I like to do is I like to call in archangel Michael every morning, when I remember, obviously, I don't do anything perfectly. Sometimes I forget, right?
Human. But I like to call in archangel Michael, and I ask him to cut any cords between me and any other people who my energy gets courted to. So I usually ask him to cut cords, and I ask him for protection.
I ask him to create a sphere of protective white light around me around my home. Yeah, I've kept tabs on like what happens when I do it. And usually when I call in archangel Michael, like I'm good.
And also I work with different guides and different medicines are very powerful that I know, like have my back regardless. So yeah, I mean, that's what I do. I also want to acknowledge that it can be hard for people, like, especially like, when we have religious trauma.
That's me. Right, because a lot of you know, spirituality, it can it can trigger or can make people think like, Oh, like a certain religion, right, that traumatized me or that hurt me. It's a process to disentangle like, institutions of power that have used, you know, the name or the guy's spirituality, right? But it's important work, like we need to like untangle that because our healing is spiritual, right? Yeah, I think the second you said prayer, I grew up Christian have a lot of trauma with that experience. So instantly, I was like, Well, like, I can't pray every morning and night because I used to do like, Yeah, it's a complete like, how do I untangle my spirituality from these practices that have caused harm? And so make me a little bit more adverse to even say the word prayer.
I know I definitely had a time in my life where I was super anti. I know this is what I was learning about colonization, right? I was like, F everything, like, I guess one thing that helped me was to like, to learn about even like get like a historical analysis of like spirituality.
Now, like things were turned, you know, were appropriated or like watered down. And like spirituality, the spiritual reality that I engage in does not produce trauma. It does not devastate the environment.
It does not create harm. Like, it's different. It almost brings the exact opposite, dare I say, right? Yeah, maybe more love, more capacity, right? Taking care of yourself means that you can show up better for the people that you serve by doing that work.
It's it's almost the direct opposite. And at least that's always what I have hoped to create my understanding of spirituality is what brings me healing. It doesn't have to make sense to anybody else. But like on our own personal journeys, what are the things that bring you healing? And that is a spiritual practice. Yeah, and it's tough.
It's tough. I for sure had a lot of horrible experiences with like the church and Yeah, yeah. I think I've always just been like against being the like, oh, like, she's spiritual person, like the yogi, like the like negative connotation of the woo woo person that seems to not be anywhere on reality, right? Like, so I think my intellectual sides too have had a hard time grappling with even the word spirituality and like what that means. Other people look at me as spiritual and I'm like, Oh, that's funny, because I don't always feel that way.
So I think I'm, I'm still in that process of grappling with it for sure. Yeah, it's a process and a journey for all of us. We can't just rely on quote unquote, spirituality either, right? Because that can also be a form of escapism. We need to be super cautious too, because it can be easy to invalidate people's experiences by like, being like, Oh, just meditate more or you know, sure, sure, sure, sure.
I see what you're saying. Yeah, to just get over the trauma through meditation, rather than honoring the true experience and the grief and the pain that is all there. I mean, at the end of the day, we need to practice the sermon, right?
Right, with all things, right? And, and that sort of thing doesn't come down in a sort of like this or that option sort of ethicalness, right? And discernment is way more complicated, more factors to all of it.
Yeah. And our journeys are complex. And there are two like at the end of the day, like, we each have our own sacred journey. And like certain things that jive with one person are not going to jive with the other. And that's okay. Right, right, right. Like it's ours to pull today.
And we pick and choose what we want and what helps us. If you could look back at your younger self, you know, before you started the spiritual journey, is your, is there anything that you would say to them? I think I would say you are brilliant.
Don't let anyone take away your shine. Beautiful. Yeah, affirmations. Yeah. And that'll unlock so much to feel secure in yourself and to feel secure in the wondrous capacities that are you as a human, right? I mean, that that alone is spirituality and healing.
Yeah. And there's another thing that I wanted to say about that is that, you know, especially when you're a person, you know, who's quote unquote different or who's an empath or even just like people who maybe, you know, maybe you're artistic or you're, you're not, you're like a circle or a square peg, right? Like deep down, like, we know who we are, like we know what we have to offer the world, right? We know if you shine, like, like you deep down, I think, you know, the worth of your shine.
And what's tough is that oftentimes we grow up in places, places and people who because of their own trauma, they cannot see your shine. And I think it took me a long time to like, to stop seeking validations from others. It's like, who couldn't see certain facets of me that I knew had a lot to offer. And I guess I want to say that the people out there who like are looking for people to validate their shine, like, you know, maybe those people can't see your shine because of their trauma has nothing to do with you. I think that's so hard to do when that person is loving you in a in a quote unquote healthy way, you know, like that's so I at least personally, that's easier for me to do when like, it's like, Oh, clearly, they're being abusive.
Clearly, it's unhealthy. But like, I think there's a lot of functioning relationships where it's just like this dull little like, sure, that's your little thing that you're working on this like, in validation of your experiences, right? That like, don't honor the shine that you have, but it's not so clear as like, abuse or other sorts of pieces and like, navigating that is so tricky. Yeah, and oftentimes the people in our lives, they want the best for us, and they're not actively looking to heart, right?
Right. And also, like, one thing that I appreciate from Buddhism, what's where I learned it is that people are doing the best from their point of view, right? Like oftentimes, our parents or caretakers are doing the best from their environment, their context, their lived experience. And we also have to honor that.
Yeah, and we have to empathize with that. but have boundaries of protection at the same time. And that's the tricky piece, I think, of maintaining the relationships, the connection, but also maintaining boundaries to protect yourself against the ways that maybe they don't understand your light because that does affect how you see yourself. Right, and I think that goes back to intuition. Seeing the red flags or knowing when you might be in danger, right? I don't know, there's something about that's making me think of intuition. Well, because deep down you kind of know, you know, and you're gut, you can feel it. And I think at least personally, the more I've had like a self-love practice, right, of like honoring myself and knowing I have a light, the more I can like see when other people aren't meeting me and the understanding that I at least hold for myself. And like that's something I can feel in my gut, especially in those dynamics where it's not clear like red flags of abuse and other things. It's like, it's something very like, oh, I just kind of feel like their image of me in their mind, it's not as loving as the one I have myself.
Right, and I think, yeah, that's a hard part, right? I was gonna say something, totally. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah, that's okay, that's okay.
I mean, I'm speaking to myself over here. These are my current journeys of navigating that connection, boundaries, maintaining your light, all of these pieces. And oh, I was gonna say something about ego strength.
Oh yeah, go for it. I think as I, you know, in my psychological training, as I learned more about like how we pulsate and develop, you know, our sense of inus or sense of self, like, Yeah. Like I think I've gotten better at detecting like where people are and being okay, being more non-judgemental around, oh yeah, they can't hold something for me and that's okay, because that's where they are. I'm not gonna get mad at it, I'm not gonna attach myself to it, I'm not gonna create narratives, I'm just gonna accept that, you know, that's where they are. And hold space for them in that way. And then at least for me, when I hear that, what I think about is like boundaries of like, maybe I have a relationship with that person, but I don't talk to them about the things I wanna process, you know, with my community, because I know that they might not have that space. And it doesn't mean I have to cut them out of my life completely and be like, you know, we can't have a connection, but it's like, I have kind of like you said before, right?
Energetic boundaries, emotional boundaries of like, who I process things with, who I share pieces with, depending on like, exactly that of like, knowing where they're at. Yeah, and it can be a hard lesson. There's probably a lot of pain and suffering, like in between like, getting to that point of being like, that's where they're at and that's okay. Oh yeah, let me tell you, I'm grieving, I'm grieving some relationships now currently of like, that's where they're at and that's okay, yeah. I wanna hold a little bit of space as we come to the end of our time here. If there is anything that was lingering for you, that you really wanted to chat about, that maybe we didn't hit on, otherwise I have a closing question.
Yeah, we hit so many things. Because nothing's coming to mind, so. Okay.
I'll let you take it away. All right, well then the question I ask everyone on the podcast is, what is one thing that you wish other people knew was more normal? I would replace the word normal with common, because normal doesn't exist.
And normal does have, it is associated with white supremacy as well, and white supremacists, a lot of thought. And so I guess I would rephrase it to like, what people, what you would want people to know that is more common than they think. Yeah, exactly. I think the intentionality behind the question was always like, what is a shared human experience? Maybe what are the pieces that we hold in shame and doubt, feeling like we're the only ones that ever grow through this.
And like really this is a shared experience of humanity that a lot of people experience. Yeah, and I see it with the clients that I work in, it's like, I think we all have such high expectations for ourselves, and like we tend to be so self-critical. And I guess what I would say to that is that, it's like we're all imperfect.
And that's what makes us, it's the imperfections in us that make us amazing. You know, like I think a lot of people in the marketing world, people are finding that authenticity. And like people who look like they have some sort of like human flaw, like those are the people that people want services from. Those are the people that people want to buy products from, not like this persona of like the supermodel that was totally like fabricated. And like, you know, like all the, with all the Photoshop and like, it's like the marketing world is now finding that, oh, if you, I don't know, if you mumble in between sentences, if you're not the most attractive, like people connect with that. People connect to your, to your rawness and your vulnerability.
So I would say for people who are aspiring to be perfect or, or it's a be, I don't know, some sort of better version of themselves is that, it's like the, and I think someone has said this at some point. It's like, it is through the cracks that the light is able to shine through, right? So like honor those cracks, love those cracks. Like love your imperfections and your awkwardness. Cause that is, that is what makes you amazing.
Yeah, that was beautiful. I mean, that hits home for me, you know, someone trying to make this podcast and do I edit out all the ums or the times I mess up in my words and all these other pieces of things. So like that, I mean, that hits home for me too.
And I'm sure with a lot of people of like, how can we honor our humanity? And in that, then let go of this idea of perfection, which I think even when you look out in nature, that's not what you see. You don't see these perfect structures.
I mean, crystals, sure, maybe, okay. But like otherwise, you know, like you see these like beautiful vines that take completely different shapes and other sorts of things. And it's not just this like perfect every single time. And like that's the beauty of nature. Right. It might sound cliche, but we're, it's like the imperfection is the perfection.
exactly. Well, it was a pleasure to chat with you and hear about your spiritual journey and where you're going. I'll be excited to see, you know, like, give yourself another 10 years and like, what is the work that you're going to be doing? Yeah, we'll see. The sky is a limit. So, yes, you hold on to that. Yes. Is there anywhere for people that want to connect with you that you'd want to plug? Sure.
I mean, I have my website. It's it's my name. So it's Eduardo Eduardo. And then my last name is Biosca.
Be for Victor IE. Z for zebra, C for cat, A for apple. So it's www.biosca .com. Right. Yeah. That's my website.
Great. And then I'll have that hyperlinked below so people can check it out and stay up with what you're doing and I'll be interested to see your trajectory and your growth. Thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. If you enjoy today's episode, then leave us a five star review wherever you listen to your podcast. And if you're a part of the anarchist community, then follow us on Instagram or nominate a guest for the show by sending in a letter to modernanarchypodcast at gmail.com. Otherwise, I'll see you next week.