Nicole: Welcome to Modern Anarchy, the podcast exploring sex, relationships, and liberation. I'm your host, Nicole. On today's episode, we have artist, Anita Navar, Join us for a conversation about living into sexual liberation. Together we talk about growing up in a doomsday cult, the connection between creativity and embodiment, And letting our pleasure lead by example. Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Modern Anarchy. I am so happy that you are here for another episode of Pleasure Activism.
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And when I look back on my journey with pleasure, coming from restrictive paradigms of religion, Didn't have a connection to pleasure. It was sin and wrong and the body is flesh And so when I look back on the years since then and I need a shared a similar experience It's been quite the trip quite the journey to really listen to our pleasure and start to follow our our pleasure like a compass and and that took very small moments of tuning into the whispers of pleasure and it has grown louder and louder as my connection to that state of being has grown so much so that I can feel when something takes my gravity off and I'm feeling a little out of it and I Usually look to my relationships and what's going on to kind of assess where something might be off.
And Anita had talked about her work first being therapy initially. It became something bigger than herself and I think that's really important. I feel very similar about this podcast space. Y'all, I really can't go back to old episodes to listen because it's kind of radical. You know, you grow, you learn more, and I'm here with you this week on Wednesday releasing this episode.
But when I go back to past episodes, I, you know, I try to have compassion for myself first, but I'm much wiser now, right? And so I really can't go back to listen to them. Um, at least currently with where I'm at. I just try to stay in the present and give you an episode each week. So, but when I look back to them, I, uh, do remember even an episode on non monogamy, right?
And I was battling the sort of internal difficult space of falling in love with this person who was very clear that they wanted monogamy. And for me, I was feeling into whether non monogamy was a need, a value that was inherent to. any relationship I decided to build in my life. And, uh, I was crying. My gravity was off.
I felt so pulled in two different directions. And I remember actually releasing that episode on the podcast where, uh, Chris, another polyamorous individual I was in community with really like held that space for me to process that. And there are lots of episodes on this podcast of me processing my.
sexual liberation, right? If you go all the way back to the beginning, I remember asking, what's fet life? I really didn't know much about kink to years later here through all of these conversations, having so much growth and expansion and quite literally liberation, right? There's been so much shame lifted for me through all of these conversations and I'm so touched when I hear messages from listeners and Patreon members who tell me about how meaningful these conversations have been for them and their liberation journey.
And yeah, just this weekend I had one of the most beautiful experiences of bringing all of my lovers together to go climbing. Y'all. It was so beautiful to have multiple lovers there, people who are on the same page with kitchen table dynamics and the value systems of building community together. I I can't even express to you how much joy was in my body to see all of my lovers together.
And I came away from that experience literally repeating that. It's such a dream, right? It is such a dream to have this. And I never would have imagined that I could have loved multiple people, had them all in the same space. Enjoying laughter with one another and yeah, I know non monogamy is not about the sex, right?
It's not just about the ability to have sex with multiple people for me It is the joy of this weekend of sitting with all of my lovers and being able to hug And kiss. All of them. Goodbye. Ugh, like, dear listener, I just can't express to you what sort of hope that gives me for the future to have spaces where I can express my intimacy, express my love, and have that liberated and something that brings everybody together for deeper intimacy.
I mean It is a beautiful journey, dear listener, and I am still learning each day what it means to listen to my pleasure, the way that it moves and changes and continues to change every day. Dear listener, I want to invite you to think about your pleasure. If you tune into your body and take a moment to take that deep breath,
where is your pleasure leading you?
There is so much to meditate on that one, and I really hope you can give yourself the time and space to feel into the next calling of pleasure in your sex and relationships. And with that, dear listener, know that I am sending you all of my love. And let's tune into today's episode. So then the first question I like to ask each guest is, How would you introduce yourself to the listeners?
Anita Nevar: My name is Anita Navar, and I am a visual artist, and I specialize in art for bold collectors who are really wanting to, well they're proud to express themselves, and especially the sex positive art. That is my specialty. So my clientele usually are people within the LGBTQ kink spaces and celebrities as well.
So I'm very passionate about the sex positive expression through the artwork.
Nicole: Beautiful. Very excited to have you on the show. So thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure being here. Yeah. So there's a lot of different places we could start this conversation. I know you had talked a little bit about your journey growing up, you know, and being repressed.
So I think maybe that could be a fun place to start.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, definitely. And this is pretty much where my art was born from is that repression. So, so I grew up in a doomsday cult. So, yes. What does that mean? I know. Exactly. We hear, people often say to me, because I take it for granted, I grew up like that. I think everybody knows about the cult scene and, um, when people hear about it, they're like, wow, tell me this is so foreign to meet somebody that's actually been through the experience.
Nicole: Mm hmm.
Anita Nevar: So, I was brought into this when I was, I would, my first memory is about four years old and being in the cult and it was a religious cult and it was all about prophesying that the end of the world was coming. And so we, in this cult, we, we were allowed to talk to people on the outside of the cult, but we weren't allowed to socialize because as far as the cult were concerned, we were there to try and get as many people in so that when The end of the world came that we could save as many people as possible, but in the same token, you know, we were to treat them as if they were evil and bad association if we weren't trying to recruit them.
So we couldn't have anything to do with them other than if it was to do with their religion. So I grew up thinking that that was normal and that we were better than everybody else because that's what they taught you is that we're the chosen ones. They're the evil ones. And we were very controlled, everything down to the music we listened to, what we wore, who we spoke to, our sexuality, sex was taboo, no sex before marriage.
And I know you've had experiences with that, listening to your, your episode, but you know, the. The purity thing. And, and so up until I was in my mid twenties, there was a lot of guilt and shame and fear. And that's all I remember really growing up as a child is always being in fear and always being scared.
And when it came to anything to do with sexual, and I was very sexually aware from a young age. I always felt this really sort of heavy shame and I couldn't even pinpoint it, even from an early young age. It was just there without me even realizing what was going on. And it wasn't until I put the pieces together later that I realized the conditioning that we had was so intense.
So I married into this cult. I had two daughters. I was married as a teenager because again, no sex before marriage. . Whoa, whoa. So you marry, you marry the first person you meet because you wanna have sex, and it's a disaster, baby, straight away. So I had my second child by the time I was 21. And to top it all, LT being like in the cold and being so controlled.
I then had a husband who I was living in a domestic violence situation, so he was, yeah, and so I used to physically, mentally, emotionally, in all areas. And because you, when you're married in this cult, you are the property of your husband. The woman is the lesser person, there's no divorce, so you just suck it up and you have no help.
So I ran away from that because I literally had a breakdown and you know, I got to this point where young mom just absolutely traumatized. And I was scared of the outside world because I was always told that was evil, but I was also very unhappy being where I was. So I decided just to run. And my art was born out of that because the biggest thing that I got from it is that I never got to grow up and experience life as a teenager or as a normal child and discover who I was.
And sex was a big thing for me. I always wanted a boyfriend. I was never allowed. So when I left and I started. Doing my art, everything that was repressed in me, especially with the sexuality and the queerness, it came out on the canvas and it was my therapy initially. So yeah, there's a lot in that story and, you know, even after leaving and the art journey, there was a lot of self discovery and breakdowns and, and epiphanies and it was just pretty much 20, nearly 30 years of self discovery, really.
Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Nicole: Yeah, I know. There's a lot to unpack with that one. I know. It's a big journey. Yeah. My heart goes out to you. That's a lot to go through psychologically, just a process to reclaim your pleasure.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, absolutely. And the pleasure thing. I love it now because my, my daughters are older. Mm-Hmm, , my daughters are nearly, they're almost 30, approaching 30.
And at the point that I got out, they don't remember anything. So they've been brought up in my new life, not the cult life. And I watch these young women and they're so in touch with who they are, and they can express themselves and they can express pleasure and talk about sex. And, and I look at that and it's just for me.
It's the biggest thing in that I know that I got out at the right time. I had to go through that self discovery and that for my children so that the next generation for them doesn't have the issues that we had growing up. So it has that knock on effect.
Nicole: Yeah. I'm sure that's so meaningful to see the ways that they're liberated and able to be connected to that in ways that, yeah, you didn't have.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So, so, you know, the art, it's, it's a beautiful thing in that. Um, it was my therapy initially, but through that it's become bigger than me. And so not only do I have these beautiful children, but I have this whole creative side and this whole world and all these other people over here that I get to just enjoy life with and desire and passion and fun.
And I get to inspire other people who find it hard to express themselves or are going through things themselves. It's like, I often get those comments, people will message me, Oh my God, you've really helped me come out of my shell or not be scared of, or get rid of that shame and just be proud of who I am.
So, yeah, I, I know that my mission was always to go through this. I have no regrets. That I was in the cult or what happened, happened. I know that's just part of my journey and it's where I was meant to be. So it's made me who I am.
Nicole: And now you can speak to something that, you know, only you can speak to that lived experience of going through that and then being able to help people.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, that's right. And, um, funny you say that because I just did an article recently with Forbes magazine and an interview. And that's what that was really about is that you can have, especially with art and artists. I mean, we can paint. There's lots of people that can paint and create. We're all creative beings.
We've got so much in us. But when you can create, not just for the sake of it, but to something that a lived experience that comes from a deeper part of your soul, it has such a big impact. And it's not even just the visual looking at the art, like you can feel the energy in the piece or the essence in it.
And that comes from that lived experience, which is just so powerful. I love that.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. I just had a training this week with, um, one of the art therapists at my site that I'm working at. And we were talking about how helpful it is to be able to, you know, express yourself, find these different areas.
But, um, obviously under capitalism, we all have this like pressure that if I can't sell my art or something, then it's not meaningful. So I shouldn't do it. I'm a perfectionist. Ah, so I'd be curious, you know, when you were first. Coming out and reconnecting with pleasure, like how did you get yourself to create, like what did that look like, that actual like pouring out onto the canvas?
Anita Nevar: My very first memory, so I played it safe initially when I was first painting. Sure. And. I mean, I was always an artist as a kid. I was always very creative. I just was never allowed to develop it and I hadn't really painted. I had created and illustrated and done lots of other things. And then I just had this natural urge when I left the Colt.
And it's funny, I'm actually remembering it now, but I was in an art shop and I just, I stood in front of this wall of paint and something came over me and I thought, I'm going to go home and paint. And anyway, I put one of every colour in my trolley. I got some brushes, I got some canvases, I threw it all in and I went home and I sat on the floor and I started to paint.
So initially I was playing just with the colors, not so much with subject matter, and I was just getting into the flow of what it felt like. And then it wasn't long, it was probably about a year into it, I started to paint, I was flicking through, that's what happened, I was flicking through magazines and I saw these really provocative images of women just really in their power.
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, man, I want to be like, and I just couldn't get enough of flicking through these magazines and you know, anywhere I could get it, fashion magazine, my brother at the time had some girly magazines, you know, adult magazines, you know, just with this information just pouring into my soul.
And then I just started to paint that initially it was beautiful women just with beautiful nudes and, and it just connected something in me. It made something come alive in me to say that this is okay. Everything I'd been taught that this was wrong. I'm now seeing the beauty in the female form and the beauty and skin and feeling this love and this connection and knowing that.
I wanted to develop this for myself, not just on the canvas, but be that person.
Nicole: For sure. Beautiful to get that inspiration and feel that power, right. And channeling it. And even things like collages can be so helpful. Right. Cause I know that for me, I'd be like, I could never paint. This is not happening, but there's so many pictures you could like cut and put onto something and make it together.
Right. I mean, there's so many ways that we can engage in this creative process and. I'm starting to, like, make assumptions here that in the ways that maybe you were repressed earlier, you know, so much of sex is about play, right? So I'm curious if being able to play on the canvas started to also, like, coincide with your ability to, like, reconnect with pleasure and your embodiment.
Anita Nevar: It definitely did, because at the time when I was really getting into that painting, because I, I divorced my husband, the cot was way far behind. I was a single mom for a little while, and then I met another, another man, and we spent a nice 10 years together. And then, you know, that, that sort of run its course.
But while we were together, it was really interesting because, um, He was really creative and that he used to DJ and play music. And so when he, yeah, when he would do that and then I would paint my artwork, we would have this synergy where I just felt this magic. And so together, like he was really good for me in that, you know, I'd come from this really horrible dark place.
Place and this man that treated me badly. And then I was with this new man who was really soft and creative and was fun. And so the synergy in that really woke me up to the pleasure
because all of a sudden I'm going out dancing and I'm having a good time and him and I were connecting in the bedroom and it's just like pouring out of me.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was beautiful. It was always meant to go down that path. And yeah, it was a real lightbulb. The years that I spent with him, especially those early years, so many lightbulbs went on, off, and on, I should say, of things that I didn't even know existed. in how I could have pleasure or have fun and how it was okay.
So it was really letting loose.
Nicole: Yeah. Oh man, the things that I never thought I'd be into that I am today, right? You're just like,
Anita Nevar: yeah, that's right. When you look back at it and you think like the early days, you know, And it is a process, right? It takes a long time. And a long time to break down those, those limiting beliefs and those old behaviours and the paradigms that we've been conditioned with from a young age.
But, yeah, the same, like I exhibit, I don't really do galleries. I'm not really into the general art scene, the normal art scene. Mine's more the underground alternative scene. So I like the kink festivals and, and it's a sex, you know, sexuality expose and the drag expose and they'll go and exhibit at those and meet a lot of people in those scenes and I just love it because And again, the things that I didn't think that I would be into, I look now and go, Oh my God, I love my life.
This is amazing.
If you know me 20 years ago could look at me now. Oh my goodness. And it's just like, when I go to the kink festivals, the amount of people that I see that are so fully expressed. And I just, my kink is being a voyeur. I actually like swan around and are just I get inspiration from seeing how everybody's in their zone and they're loving it and what they're connecting with and how they're expressing themselves.
And when I see that. Then I get inspired to paint things. So yeah, it's a, it's a beautiful space.
Nicole: Synergistic in that way, that inspiration. And again, feeling people embodied right in that space. I'm sure you can feel that truly in their presence. Like I'm feeling with you, right? Like there's a different level of the way that.
You speak, you hold yourself, you move even in spaces. But yeah, that journey to discovering all of that is quite the trip and has been very like spiral, like, right. At least for me, it's funny. I, um, I was just rock climbing the other day and I always loved rock climbing. Cause I would go and they're like, when you Boulder, there'd be these crowds, right?
So people would like watch you rock climb. And I always loved that pressure of having the performance. And it's like, you know, many years down the line, I'm like, Oh yeah. Like. You're an exhibitionist. This makes sense. I didn't know that five years ago, but the little like seed was there. Right. You're like, Oh, okay.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Yeah. But isn't that interesting? Because the exhibitionist in us, and I've got that in me as well, then, you know, some scenes, I'm a real introvert and I, you know, I can not speak to a soul and I like my space and I'm very low key. And then in other spaces, I'm the exhibitionist. But we're taught, yeah, and it's, I don't know, that contrast is so beautiful, but we're taught, especially with a religious upbringing, that an exhibitionist is wrong.
Like, that is just so sinful. So it's a really hard paradigm to break. break to actually be comfortable in being that exhibitionist.
Nicole: Yeah.
Anita Nevar: When you do connect with it, it's um, all systems go.
Nicole: Totally. Totally. Well, so get this, this is my take is that like maybe in some ways it's also, not to say that our kinks come from traumas, right?
But like in different ways, I think about the reality that growing up as a Christian, my whole life, I knew that God was watching me.
You know what I mean? And I knew God was watching me and I felt bad and shameful about what I did. And now I still like the idea of being watched just without shame. So maybe I love that. That's hilarious. Yeah, I know. Right. So I don't know. I don't know. I'm just saying from the psyche, you know, I like being watched God.
Oh, I love that. That's hilarious. I never thought of it that perspective before, but yeah, you could be bang on there. Yeah, I know! I was like, psychology, come on time for some research. Let's do some studies. We all have that trait. But yeah, it's fun. It's so empowering to choose. I think that's what's been beautiful for me too is in so much of the world I go outside and I get objectified in ways that I don't choose and it's scary and to be able to actually choose that space and be in that, whether it's more private or more public, right?
That's, it's so empowering.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, that's right. And I think that that's what it comes down to is just it's being in your power. It's being able to decide consent. It's taking that back. So, whereas, you know, when you're in the other space, you've lost your power completely. So how can you be your authentic, beautiful self when you have lost power?
Nicole: You can't. You're disconnected.
Anita Nevar: Right. So when you absolutely connected, connected with spirit, you know, you're connected in every way, mind, body, and soul. It's yeah, it's, and look, you know, if somebody had told me this 20 years ago that I would be where I am now with this, I wouldn't have believed them. I know.
Because I was so disconnected. I would not, you just can't fathom it, right? Like you just, you can't see it because you've never experienced it. Right. Right.
Nicole: I think that's why I often call it like a psychedelic experience in and of itself, right? The reality has really shifted in so many different ways that I couldn't have predicted at all.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Yeah. And it keeps going and going. That's what I love about it. Like we're always, then it's the next thing and the next thing and you're always growing and learning. And it's just, I get so excited by it now because. I look at where I am now and think, wow, what I'm painting now and how powerful it is and how I feel.
Where am I going to be in another like 10, 20 years time? Oh, I'm excited. It's going to be amazing.
Nicole: I'm excited to meet her. Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I think it's funny too. I mean, growing up, I, you know, I don't know if it was the same for your cult experience, but there was always these, um, discussions of testimony and pressure to tell your story about how the spirit moved you.
And I never felt moved by the spirit, which was always the difficulty of that journey is I always felt like maybe I just wasn't a good enough Christian, et cetera, et cetera. You know, to get into a space now where it's like, let me tell you about pleasure. I feel it in my body and my soul. And it is good.
Right. So it's funny to like have that testimony now in a very different context.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Now that's interesting. You had that experience because mine was always, we were always asking for forgiveness that we were never. Yeah. It was never how it was never really anything positive from what I could remember on feeling good and feeling in spirit or at one with God.
But it was always, I was always praying for, please forgive me. Please let me survive Armageddon. Like it was just always meant to feel like we were never good enough.
And if we, if we didn't pull our socks up, we weren't going to make it, we were going to die. So the pressure was huge. So I never felt a connection with spirit.
It wasn't until my self development journey many years later. And I remember if anybody talked about God or spiritual, like even saying those words, Oh my goodness. Yes. I would have a meltdown, like, don't talk to me about that bullshit. I would just lose my shit because to me that just had really bad connotations, really bad feelings behind it all.
And then after many experiences and a couple of breakdowns and it takes sometimes to really hit the dirt to actually go, okay, I'm ready to listen to something new. And that self development journey opened me up to things that I didn't think were possible. And so, you know, spirituality to me is a, it's a beautiful thing now.
And God is love, like love is everywhere. It's in us. We are, you know, it's just, yeah. So it's been really nice to get to that space from where I was in that really ugly space. And I know a lot of people do battle with that. That. So Yeah, it takes a while. Yeah. To turn that around.
Nicole: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. I mean, we're talking about trauma.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Nicole: Mm-Hmm. .
Anita Nevar: So, and psychedelics, you mentioned that. Yeah. Bring, let's go. Bring it up. Yeah. So I have to tell you about my experience with that because this was another awakening of mine. And I loved listening to your episodes talking a lot about psychedelics as well because this is something that's really only very early for me and probably in the last few years that I've, I've really looked into it a little bit more and because again, you know, growing up in the cult, anything, drugs, anything like, Oh my goodness.
So we didn't. You know, I didn't grow up as a normal teenager that fixed drugs and rock and roll, you know, all of that was just. I was the anti, anti drugs. Anybody that did stuff like that was just evil. And, um, anyway, I had a lot of friends that would smoke weed and, you know, go out and do their party drugs.
And I was always the straighty 180 initially. Nope. Not touching that shit. Praying for them. We're praying for them. That's right. We're not going to make it through Armageddon.
I know. It's hilarious. And, um, yeah. And then I just, slowly kind of, you know, it, it left me slowly and bit by bit, I experiment a little bit here, a little bit there, you know, go out and have a dance and, you know, have a disco biki and things like that.
And, you know, so you kind of do things. When you're always told no, no, no, no, no, you get to this point where you do exactly the opposite, but you do it like a hundred fold harder than anybody else. So I had a good few years when I let my guard down where I just party hard and, and then it got boring. And it's like, yeah, I've done that.
You know, it's not really serving any purpose anymore. Um, what's next? And. I discovered magic mushrooms and yeah, and my experience with that. And when I tell people this, I laugh. They think I'm absolute lunatic, but I'm sure there's lots of experiences that we could all laugh about how people come to show without camping with some friends and they always take magic mushrooms.
They love it. They love psychedelics. Yes. Um, and anyway, I was camping with them and. That was saying, you know, look, let's get some mushrooms and let's do a trip. Anyway, so I agreed, very worried about what it was going to do because I'd only ever heard the stories about a really bad trip and, um, yeah, yeah, I agreed and I ended up taking some myself.
What I ended up doing, because I'm very, um, I don't know about you, but sometimes I like to do things on my own. Like if I'm in a big crowd, yeah, it's, um, I mean, I'm very, yeah, I'm very social and I love crowds, but on substances, sometimes, you know, even a drink, if I have a drink of wine, I like to be on my own.
I just like to chill in my own space or out in nature and connect. And so I went camping again and I was out in this field where all these cows were and there was mushies everywhere. And the funny experience is that I felt like they were calling me and so yeah, it was like I was hearing this voice like Anita, Anita, we're here, we're here, come and get us.
And anyway, I went through this field, mind you, I hadn't, you know, had experiences with them before. I went through this field and I'm picking these mushrooms and as I was picking them, I was getting things like full body, like chills, like they were, it's like they were communicating with me. I hadn't had any yet, so it definitely wasn't trippy.
Clarifying here, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, anyway, as I picked them, I kissed them on the, like, on the top and I'm like, I love you, and I'd kiss them and put them in my little basket. And anyway, I had a little bit, because I was staying on my own, so I lit a fire that night, and I thought, look, I'm just going to, like, put a little bit in with my food, start this fire, and just Let's kind of see what happens.
Yep. I had the most amazing experience where this big lightning storm had started to come over. So the wind started to whip up and then, you know, the sky started to like flash different colors. And so in the middle of that, I just felt this really strong connection with like the earth and because I could see the shadows of the trees and it was such a profound spiritual experience.
That I always think about it now and I've gone back and gone camping a few times on my own and just taken that little bit and sat in the trees or had a swim and every time I just feel this sense of oneness with everything around me and realizing that there's a bigger picture than just what we think we see and that was kind of for me going next level and again with my art, going deeper with my art. I, to tell you the truth, I don't know how people trip and paint because I couldn't see properly. I don't know. I don't know how they do it.
Nicole: A blur. It's all a blur. I just paint it out.
Anita Nevar: I'm like, how do we paint? How do we create? But anyway, it obviously works for some people. For me, I need to sort of stop and sit back and just immerse myself in what's going on around me. Totally. It just. It made my art see, even though there was a real substance and essence there anyway, it made me look at my art different as well. And the people that I'm painting and the commissions that I'm doing, it's like I had a deeper connection again with every subject.
So, Because I had this profound sense of oneness and connection with everything in the universe.
So, yeah. So, anyway, I haven't told my mom that story because she'd have a heart attack,
Nicole: but Hey, I've gently told my mom, very gently. Very gently. It's been a process. Um, yeah, yeah, I've had phone calls with her while on it and I think that might have maybe helped cause I was like, mom, look at how clear I am. This is much better than alcohol. Let me tell you. Um, so slowly but surely. But wow, I mean, how meaningful for you, like given where you came from, right? With spirituality and religion and the trauma around that to be able to have this profound experience alone, reconnecting with, you know, spirituality and, and a plan that's bigger than yourself.
I'm sure that like, really like sits in your heart still.
Anita Nevar: Oh, absolutely. I think I've definitely forever changed after all of that. It's just the psychedelic solidified that I was on the right path and that, that, that connection, I can't get over the love and the connection that, that feeling you just know you're in the right space and that you're moving in the right direction.
So, and I find that it doesn't matter what's going on in the world around me now. There's this like grounding, not to say I don't lose my feet every now and again, like we all do, we're just, but, but there's this grounding that, you know, that this is temporary and that there's more. And so it just helped me see a bigger picture that just, I just don't seem to stress about the things I used to anymore, which is lovely.
Nicole: Beautiful. Yeah. It's always been my dream that, uh, when I die, I could be decomposed by mushrooms and turned into a psychedelic experience for my family and friends. You know, I know that sounds a little woo, but like. Wow, like what a meaningful way to like close out an existence through like a very spiritual connection and that.
So I mean, I tell people that's what I want. So if it's possible one day, I hope that could be like my funeral rather than like a sad experience, you know.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Mm-Hmm. So, yeah, no, we'll, I'll keep going and kiss the mushrooms. I, I know a thousand percent they're talking to me. So . Yeah. Just, you know,
Nicole: I mean it's lot, it's alive, right?
Everything around us in that way. So I think that when we like slow down and tune into it, you can hear more in that way. Right. It's very powerful. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. One of my favorite things. Go ahead. You want to go? No, you go. As I say, one of my favorite things with psychedelics is to like, again, cause I'm an artist, I guess of a different way.
Like I cannot paint like a pretty painting. I can paint a like colorful, messy painting. And so I like to just like truly like feel. The paint like get I get like toddler like, right? Like when I'm on psychedelics, right? Can I just like run my fingers through this and feel it the silkiness on my skin or the paint brush or um, After that conversation with the art therapist she had recommended oil pastels because they're a little bit like cleaner I just like to feel it Feel like I actually like to feel the, um, medium, right.
And the, whatever I'm using on the paper, whether it's a Sharpie or maybe yeah, those oil pastels, I like to like, just sense it because I feel like in those psychedelic spaces, there's such a heightened sense, depending on the psychedelic, right. Maybe not like ketamine or other ones, but depending on the psychedelic, you can have that really heightened body experience.
And so to feel the pleasure of that creation process has been such a beautiful healing journey for me in so many different ways.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Yeah. That tactile sensation. Yes. It's, it's beautiful, isn't it?
Nicole: Yeah.
Anita Nevar: And that's what I love too, is that heightened sensation of everything. Um, yeah. Yeah. I like the, for me, it's the feeling of the brush gliding over the canvas, there's something about that.
Yeah. I, I get lost in that for hours when I'm, yeah, I mean, I get lost in that for hours anyway, but then you introduce something else and it's just, ah, time and space disappears.
Nicole: Yeah. I know. I know. So it's all the different ways that we like connect with pleasure, right?
Anita Nevar: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And looking at pleasure as well.
I recently did an exhibition at Drag Expo. Yeah. And in Australia here. And so a few commissions from that where the people that wanted the commissions and they were expressing how they, so they want paintings of themselves. In their own pleasure or their own expression. Oh, so hard. Yeah, it is. And I find it absolutely fascinating.
Like when people tell me what they want, you know, especially with their kinks and things like that, I want you to paint me in this playing this role or wearing this or with this person or, um, yeah, it just, it's something about it really lights me up to see other people Um, in pleasure in their own space, owning it, expressing it and wanting something, wanting to immortalize that on a canvas on their wall so that they can look at that and get, and then get pleasure from that. So like the pleasure just doesn't end. It just keeps going and going.
Nicole: Yes.
Anita Nevar: Yes. I love.
Nicole: Yeah.
Anita Nevar: So pleasure and passion are my two biggest things. I think from leaving the cult. Is that having that, that passion and that love and really being able to feel like immerse yourself and the joy that you get from all of that is huge. Huge.
Nicole: Yeah. And I think everyone's attracted to that. Right. That's what makes the person the most attractive, you know, person in the room. It's not the body or what they're wearing or any of that. It's how they carry themselves. And when you feel that pleasure and that passion, it's truly magnetic, right?
Anita Nevar: Yeah.
Nicole: Yeah.
Anita Nevar: Because the person doesn't even have to say anything. And you just, you can feel it. Feel it. You can feel it coming towards you.
Nicole: Please connect with me. And that's a psychedelic experience in and of itself. Like bring me into your world and the way that relationships change us. Oh my God. Yeah.
Every time. I don't know about you. And how do you do relationships these days? I'd be curious.
Anita Nevar: Interestingly, lately, my relationship has been with my art. So I love, yeah, I have done, I've had lots of different phases of my life, so I'm coming up to 50. So I'm 49. Yeah. So I've done the, you know, the marriage early, even though it was not a very good marriage, you know, marriage.
Yeah. three kids, um, some long term relationships. We've had the casual sex. We've had the, you know, short term partners, the fun. And I just came into this space where I learned so much from each of those. Some of them were beautiful, some not so beautiful. Some were very liberating and taught me a lot of things about who I was and about the world.
But I've come into this space now where I really feel like I'm in my freedom and my power. So kids have grown up. I don't have any responsibilities other than myself. And I have got this art here, which is speaking to my soul and it's like my art has become Yeah. So, and because I'm meeting so many people, I'm attending all these, you know, King Festivals and Mardi Gras and I'm meeting all these amazing people.
I'm getting all of this. I'm being filled up with love. I mean, I love being in my own space. I never get lonely. And I could be a hermit, tell you the truth, if people didn't, you know, if they weren't things to do, I could easily go off the grid and get lost, but, um, but I feel like I'm so filled up with beautiful people around me all the time.
I just know that having this love affair with my art in this space, I mean, it's a space I'm meant to be at at this time. But what's going to happen is, which I know, is somewhere along this art journey, I don't know, at an exhibition or somewhere, organically, I'm going to meet somebody that is going to be my person.
And You know, I'm not looking for that person cause I'm quite content where I am, but when I do meet that person, it's just going to be magical. It's going to be next level to anything I've experienced already.
Yeah. So, so I think I've evolved so much. As, you know, that, yeah, it'll be someone that's in that same space.
Nicole: Well, yeah, because look at where you're at now, right? Compared to those other, the, the things I, I'll make the assumption that the things you find attractive now are not the things you found attractive then. Exactly.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Very different. Very different. So, and just even in my queerness, that's a discovery that.
Took me a while to work out as well. And I would have people say to me years ago, Oh, Nita, you're going to work out one day that, that you're gay or that you're a lesbian, or people would say to me, I would go, don't be stupid. I like men. I like men. And, but I always had these things that these attractions growing up or these thoughts or feelings that I could never, I never really understood it.
And especially with the conditioning of the homophobia. Things that I pushed to the back, no, that's not happening. It's, I was always like through that journey, I, when I think, and I'm actually writing my autobiography at the moment, so I'm, I'm remembering all of this stuff as I'm writing as well. I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm piecing things together.
I remember that event now. I remember when I sort of come to this realization because. It was something else that happened down the track. So what ended up happening is that I got to this point where I was like, I understood how I felt and why my attractions were the way they were and that it was okay.
And then I just, one day I was like, fuck, I'm queer. This is so cool. This is so cool. Cause I get it now. And I'm not afraid to say that I am. I've got, you know, it just. Yeah. Yeah. It was so freeing to be able to understand it and express it.
So the queer journey in there has been another one. Because, I mean, I've always been surrounded by queer people. My main clientele are LGBTQ community. Yeah. And when I look at it now, I think, how did I not connect earlier? Like, I'm around this community all the fucking time. What the hell? Yeah. Ah. Yeah, it's, it's been an interesting one, I must say, but when you come into that space with all the dots connect, then it's so exciting because like we were talking about before, it's like, wow, well, if this is all connecting and I'm here now, where are we going to be later?
So it just gets better and better, right?
Nicole: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Cause if. Very similar thing to me, right? I had no idea. Right. And so if you would have told me I was queer back in the day, right? No, absolutely not. No. Right. And so it's just, it is really fascinating how through time things can illuminate. Right.
And then that's where I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to try and stay away from these labels because things just evolve and change and our appetites change and life changes. And so holding space for that unfolding and the journey of all that I think is, is part of the process.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, definitely. And it is, you're quite right, it's holding that space.
And I think it's, it's also not being tough, like hard on yourself and judging yourself and yeah, there's a lot of like self acceptance and that liberation with, yeah, it's, and I, I know now this isn't in a job, you know, there's nothing in their external reality will satisfy you or bring you to this space.
This space is an internal job. Like you've got to do the inner work. and connect because coming from the inside out just changes everything rather than the outside in.
Nicole: The only like tricky piece I add to that though is like, I feel like we can't do the inner work without the outside because the outside is how we got there, right?
Like this Christian for me paradigm, like in that world where such social creatures, those relationships get internalized. It is quite literally like, We're always looking for acceptance, always looking for love, and so if queerness is going to be the thing that shuts me off, I'm going to pack that away.
So it's like, it's such a yes and of like, we need to do the internal work and then like, have the community. If you don't have the community, good luck, right? It's like, oh, my heart.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, you definitely need the community. Yeah. Yeah, because when you're trying to, and when I look at it from a perspective of the community for you personally and professionally, it's like me, I look at it with my art as well.
I'm never going to be able to get people who are not in a space of fully embodied and expressed or to connect with my art because I'd be trying to sell something to somebody that doesn't get it. Right. Yeah. Because they're not my community. So it's the same, like why we try and get people to accept us, that.
I'm never going to like, I know there's like, we've got to have that community of our people because that's where the love grows. So yeah, we do have to I agree. We do have to have the outside experiences. But when we do what I found was doing in a work, I had to acknowledge that those outside experiences.
Yes. Yeah. Acknowledge them and not judge them.
Nicole: Yeah. I know. Yeah. I get a one star review on this podcast and I'm like, Oh my God, the world hates me. Right. You know, or I've had an abortion and I get called a murderer. Right. And it's like, Whoa. Even in my own family, I was doing the psychedelic therapy work, and my brother was like, I would never want a therapist who does any work with hard drugs like ketamine.
And I'm just like, Oh, okay. Like, you know, like, so I just, you, exactly what you're saying is it's like, you need the external and additionally need to choose who you listen to on the external. Yes. Everyone's going to have their opinion. Everyone's working from their own paradigm. Everyone's on their own journey.
And so like, who do I actually trust to have an opinion that I want to internalize? And then that work is so, so needed. Yeah. I agree completely. What a journey! What a ride!
Anita Nevar: But I love it. I know it, it almost becomes addicting, don't you reckon? It's like once you start initially, it's a little like, it's uncomfortable, a bit scary and you feel in the water and working things out.
And then you just get to this space where you're like, yeah, I'm in this for the long haul. This is so cool. It doesn't matter. I'm like, even if you do, and we know there's going to be ebbs and flows, but I'm ready. I'm ready because I know when I'm in the ebb. I'm still going to have awareness enough to traverse that like.
And I'm going to be okay, like, it kind of gets rid of the, yeah, yeah, because you know, there's something really awesome on the other side because you've, you've been there before.
Nicole: Yeah. So the climb of that, the journey, the just around the river, Ben, where, where are we going in the process of that? I think that was one question I wanted to ask you too, is, you know, Thinking about the ways coming from your background and the, you were so disconnected from your pleasure and your embodiment to where you're at now, you know, I talk about pleasure being a compass.
So I'd be curious, like, how do you stay connected to that? How do you notice when something is kind of out of alignment? Where do you get that sense?
Anita Nevar: I notice, so if I'm feeling, when I'm in a, like, feeling creative and inspired, I know I'm in alignment. Yeah. When I feel flat and that creativity isn't flowing something out is out of whack.
So, and I generally feel it, I feel it in my gut. Like I very much, yeah, my intuition and my heart space is just through the roof now. So I listen to my body, I listen to how I feel, you know, I I, I feel like this full connection, mind, body, and soul. If something's out of whack, I, I, I just know it. And it usually, it doesn't take me long because now I can recognize it.
Not feeling creative. I feel flat. I feel, you know, my tummy doesn't feel right, you know, my heart space is, I do something about it straight away. So before I didn't have the tools, and this is part of the journey, earlier on, you don't have the tools. So you don't know how to. Yeah. Yeah. But once you realize like what doing, and I know that, you know, work is a lifelong journey.
It never ends, but you just get to this point of this knowing, so yeah, totally, you know, what you need, you know, when you need to kick your own ass, you know, when you need to change direction, you know, when you need to get away from certain people, you know, when you need to change whatever you're doing in your professional life, like you just, Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I almost have like a little voice on my shoulder that goes, come on Anita, let's talk to me. And I probably do talk to myself, but anyway. Sure, sure.
Nicole: I do too. I have this like, come on, bitch, but like in a great, very empowering way, you know, where it's like, come on. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. I do the same.
Yeah. I do the same. Well, I mean, when you. When you exist in pleasure, right? Obviously, pleasure includes pain and days of sadness and, you know, all of it. That full embrace of the human emotions, I think, is how we get to pleasure. But when, for the most part, you're in that state, then I feel like it's so obvious when something, you know, it's kind of like when you've been in this warm bath compared to ice.
It's like, whoa, okay. I can definitely tell that that is off and something needs to be, uh, switched and change. And I don't feel like it's something stuck inside me. It's a reality of the environment and what's going on in my world. And then I, you know, I love listening to other podcasts and stuff and I'll hear people talk about that.
things like this of like, Oh, the pleasure, you know, you stay with it and you have that gut and that intuition. And then I hold space for my own journey of, you know, anxiety and being, you know, my body told me many things were scary that I think were reactions to trauma reactions to the outside world. And so listening to my body at that point would have been like run hides.
You know, which was adaptive and how I survived, right? And so it's, it's really interesting. I think when we have these conversations about tuning into your gut, because, you know, sometimes the gut is still in a space of your trauma, right? Still in that space of trying to protect yourself and, you know, being able to like take off that armor once you're in a safer space.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that I found really helped me was to get out in nature. That was something that, yeah, that connection with nature. There's something really, yeah, there's a force at work there. That we need to be in. And so whenever I do feel like I've lost my way a little bit, I just stop whatever I'm doing and I just get out.
I might go for a swim at the beach or I'll go for a walk in the forest. I'll take my tent, I'll just disappear, go off the grid, go out for a night, light the fire. Whatever it is out in nature. That just reconnects me and I find after a day or two, I'm good again. So yeah, that's finding that thing for you that when you feel disconnected, okay, what is it that brings that passion or that pleasure or that, that thing back where you feel that spark.
Mm hmm. Absolutely.
Nicole: Yeah. Away from the phones and back into nature.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Cause I mean the world is crazy. There's a lot going on all the time. We've got no screens in our faces, like you were saying. So it's sometimes you can get dragged down a rabbit hole and not even realize that it's happening. For sure.
Um, yeah. For sure. I find that I now surround myself with things, you know, 99 percent of the time I'll slip every now and again, you know, look at something that and go, fuck, I shouldn't have looked at that.
Nicole: Totally. But yeah, we do it, right?
Anita Nevar: Yeah. But I, I surround myself, whether it's material things or, you know, listening movies that I watch, it's all something.
That is going to lead to me feeling better, not worse.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And music has changed. My music taste has changed dramatically. Has that occurred for you?
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Yeah. Big time. I used to, um, what are you, what were you into? Let me tell you, tell me first, what did you use to like and what do you like now?
Nicole: Well, I mean, I grew up on like Taylor Swift. So I was like, Oh my God, the romance and I need to be swept away and all the things, you know, and I'm like, damn, I'm writing my own narrative these days. Jesus, Taylor, let's talk, you know, like. Oh, or like, just like heavy, like, you know, versus now, like listening to like, not always, but like spiritual music and empowering things, you know, and stuff.
And I'm like, wow, like, this is really shifted. And what, what sort of actual, like, quite literally vibrations, right? Music, uh, things actually feel good in my body these days.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the same because that's what I think we realized on this journey is that everything is a vibration. Like, what are we, where are we vibrating?
I know what's coming, where are we? Cause you know, what's coming back to you shows you how you're vibrating. So my go to used to be heavy metal. No, I would be the one with all my mates. We'd be in that mosh pit and just. Absolutely. Going mental. Just that angry. And it felt good at the time, but I can't do much of that these days.
Like, and especially doing, you know, my experience with the mushrooms, I find myself with that real, I don't know, you get playlists for psychedelic, you know, um, dance kind of music. And I feel when I get into that space, like my body moves, so I'm really loving that sort of stuff. You're welcome. If I can move around and dance and feel it through every cell of my, my being, yeah, it's just.
That's super powerful for me.
Nicole: Absolutely. Absolutely. I know a part of me like cringes when I'm like, Oh yeah, it's vibrations, you know? Cause that's all, that's always the new agey thing. And you know, like you coming from spirituality beforehand, I was like, well, I'm never going to fall into that. Like I have to have these boxes around this spiritual bullshit.
You know what I mean? And then, and then you take the class on physics and you're like, Oh, music is vibrations in the ear. Oh, you know? So then I'm like, okay, I'm here. People I'm here. I'm with the energy now, you know, like my voice, our laughter, all of this is vibrations that hello, dear listener are tuning into.
Right. And we are, you know, when we're in relationship, even just mirror neurons, right? When you smile, I feel that in my body and my body and my brain picks that up. Your voice. Right. We're always moved by one another. So I think it's important to think about, you know, yeah, what are we choosing to surround ourselves with, you know, and finding things that are empowering and feel good and having sensitivities to that is important.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And I used to laugh, not laugh, but anybody that was into woo woo, I just think that they were off their freaking rocker. Right.
Nicole: Yeah. Woo. I feel like, yeah, that's, you know, that journey is so humbling, right? It's, it's the learning, the unlearning, the learning, the unlearning, the learning, unlearn, you know, like it's just the whole process is so humbling, which is beautiful and part of the journey and, you know, I think also that that's really where, like, sexuality was a similar space for me, right?
In so many different ways. I judged so many different people for what they did, particularly coming from my Christian background, right? So, you know, Research on, you know, how, when we're, we're always afraid of the other, the thing that is different, the thing that is different from us. And so, in that paradigm, I was so judgmental about anybody that didn't fit into what I understood and then to go through this process of learning and unfolding, it's truly kind of like we were talking about with queerness earlier, right?
Just been this journey of, of not holding on to specific things that I thought were so concrete of my identity, right? That have really, um, Unfolded through time and change and play and all of this stuff because I just keep coming back to the reality that like we are fish living in water of a culture that has been so repressed around sexuality, particularly in America.
And so I'm always in this bubble and like having to unpack that. The ways that that is still impacting me and how I understand things, right? So that, I don't think that journey ever ends like other forms of oppression that we're kind of sitting in and trying to deconstruct. That's a lifelong practice.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, absolutely. And I was exactly like you. I used to, you know, from what we'd been taught, we judged everybody. So when it came to sexuality and I look back on that now and I think, Oh my goodness, how freaking disconnected and wrong that was. And sexuality is such a beautiful thing. It's like it's God force in you, isn't it?
Like sexuality and creativity together are just, oh, insanely, we're all creative beings. So sexuality is part of the creation. And so I look now and I just think far out to not have that in my life. It's just that you're missing out on so much. And so my journey being the artist that now creates like artwork around sexuality.
It's been so beautiful to be in a space where I no longer judge people. I see the difference in the beauty in everybody, no matter how they identify their sexuality, their gender, their preferences, their kinks, like their desires. I just have a love for everybody and everything and where they fit. seeing that bigger picture. So
Nicole: yeah,
Anita Nevar: it's, it's, it's sad. Like when I see people that were like we were, you just want to like shake them and go wake up, wake up, like come over here, come over here. But I guess they've got to go through their own journey to, to see it. Um, when you do, yeah, it's amazing.
Nicole: Right. Which makes me think my, you know, just even when you think about psychology, right, if someone would have came and told me like, Nicole, like, wake up, there's so much pleasure over here.
If you knew, I, we know that people get defensive. It's immediately like a, no, I know like that just human psychology is going to defend your position and be like, I know what I know, don't tell me what I don't know. Right. So it's, it's interesting if you're thinking about ways of like, Supporting people.
It's, it's not so much of even that. I, I, I do think that the best thing we can do is thrive in our pleasure. Like truly, like you are doing your thing. I'm so happy for you. I am thriving and I love what I do. And then they ask a little curious question. They're like, well, what, what, what do you do? And I'm like, well, he, You want to know?
You know what I mean? So I'll tell you, but like, I'm not going to come over here and be like, what you're doing is wrong or all this other sort of stuff. I really think the benefit is to be in our pleasure, our joy, our embodiment, and then people can ask their questions, you know?
Anita Nevar: Yeah, because you lead by example, hey?
And they get curious. That's the thing, because it's like, what's going on over here? Why are they so happy? Why are they having so much fun? Like, what? I want to know what you're, you know, they ask questions. Well, I want to know what you're taking. What are you on? It's like, man, I'm just high on life.
Nicole: Totally. Yeah.
Anita Nevar: So I think you're right. Leading by example, you being in the best space that you can be sets an example for other people to then ask questions or be curious or to, to see that there is something different.
Nicole: Yeah.
Anita Nevar: So, yeah, Oh, how beautiful,
Nicole: I know
Anita Nevar: that collective consciousness, I think as more people do that and stand in that space.
And that's why for me with the art, I knew it was bigger than me. This is not just a piece on a wall, this is speaking to the world at large. So anybody that sees this, it has a bigger message or a bigger energy behind it. It's not just. A material piece or an object that in it that's doing nothing. Yeah.
So I always know that my purpose as a And it, you know, this happened, I didn't choose the sexuality space, it chose me. I just knew. It just, it came from a deep place in my soul. So I just, we know, yeah, we know we're here for, for bigger things and to help other people for sure. So. Yeah.
Nicole: The ripples of your work, right?
You have that powerful painting and they feel embodied. They play with that power and then it ripples out in so many beautiful ways.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, for sure. I'm looking at your mannequin behind you as we're speaking because I have one of those in my studio as well. Hell yeah. Yes. Pretty much exactly the same with all of it.
Nicole: I love it. Don't you love it? I feel like it's so subtle. For the listener, it's my leather harness. It's my top, collar, chain, cuffs, all the good things. I feel like it's just a very subtle, like, if you don't want to talk about kink, we don't have to, but if you want to, it's here.
Anita Nevar: It's definitely a conversation opener.
Nicole: Yeah, for sure. Exactly. Exactly. Ugh. Well, we've had such a beautiful time chatting and yeah, I can feel your embodiment and your pleasure and your presence and kind of like you were saying earlier about like the, the ripples of your work. It's, it's wild for me to think about like this podcast space, you know, when I started this, like so many years ago, like I, I had no idea how it would impact me, but I didn't even have the culture and the community yet to hold this, like, space for me to go through the journey of, like, connecting with my sexuality and my empowerment.
And so, it's such a pleasure to connect, like you said, in the oneness, right? To connect with someone else who's empowered in that and to be seen in that and conversations like this truly do give me that pleasure to keep going back out into the world and, like, bringing this to the people around us.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, well, you're doing an amazing job because your episodes and your guests are just phenomenal.
So I've enjoyed listening to the hours and hours. Yeah. So go you.
Nicole: Thank you. I appreciate that so much. Thank you. My pleasure. Yeah.
I want to ask two closing questions. I've been really enjoying this first one has been fun for me. Um, so the first question I want to ask is, If you could go back to your younger self, and you can pinpoint any point on that journey, maybe all the way back, somewhere in the middle, I'm curious what you would want to say to your younger self, given where you're at right now and your empowerment and your pleasure.
Anita Nevar: If I could go back, I would go back to when I was a teenager. Those early teens, when I was hiding my body and feeling this shame for just being me, for being yeah, and I would say, it's okay, shed the layers, you're beautiful, and yeah, yeah. The, you don't need to hide yourself, go out and be proud to be you.
That's where I'll go back to. Yeah.
Nicole: Feeling that in the body, opening up the chest, driving those shoulders and carrying that confidence. Yep.
Anita Nevar: Absolutely. Yeah. No hiding. No more. Don't need to hide.
Nicole: Powerful. Powerful. Powerful. Yeah. And I do have my closing question, but I want to open up the space too, in case maybe there was something we didn't hit that you wanted to share with the listeners, otherwise I can guide us towards the closing question.
Anita Nevar: No, I'm good. I think we covered a lot of beautiful stuff there.
Nicole: It was great. Oh yeah. I love when there's no plan, you know, it's so beautiful how it unfolds in its own space and its own intimacy. Definitely. Yeah. All right. Well, the closing question that I ask every guest on the show is, what is one thing that you wish other people knew was more normal?
Anita Nevar: I'd say. And normal is a funny thing, right? Because what's, what's normal, right? Check the anarchist. Check, check. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that it's normal. And it's okay to be different because what people's idea of normal is, they want to be normal like everybody else because they don't want to stand out or they don't want to be different.
But it's actually the normal and the right thing to be different because we're all unique. There's not a single person on this planet that is the same in DNA anywhere. So you are made to be different. That's the normal thing. That's the right thing. Embody it. Your desires, your kinks, your passion, whatever your fashion, like you're just embrace that that's unique you.
That's where you're meant to be.
Nicole: Totally
Anita Nevar: embody it.
Nicole: Yep. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And yeah, that's when I, I love. People, right? That God, that sounds so hippie woo woo. Oh man. But like it's a whole universe, like it's a whole universe of meaning, making creativity, the stories they have, the relationships. I mean, uh, that's why I said it's like a psychedelic experience.
Cause I'm like, bring your world into mine and let's merge and let's see where we go and how it moves me and changes you and all of that. And I think you can only have that when you're comfortable with the, I am different. I have my own story. I have my own thing. Things and together, let's, let's show each other what we have.
Oh, it's beautiful.
Anita Nevar: Yeah, definitely.
Nicole: Yep.
Anita Nevar: So be different, be proud, be loud, be you.
Nicole: Hell yeah, beautiful. Well, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show. I felt such a deep resonance with you. Yeah.
Anita Nevar: Oh, thanks, Nicole. I absolutely loved every second of our meeting here. I look forward to chatting more another time.
Of course. Yeah.
Nicole: When we're wiser. Yeah. Totally 10 years down the line we'll do the unions.
Anita Nevar: Yeah. That's right. See where we are in 10 years. Yeah. But big love to everybody that's listening and yeah.
Nicole: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Where would you want to connect listeners to your work so they can find you, resonate with you, want to see your art?
Where would you want to tell them to go?
Anita Nevar: Okay. So all of, like, I pretty much dabble in socials bit here, bit there. So I tend to find that I, you know, Get caught in the bubble in my studio. So I don't post as much as I should, but if you would like to check out my work and follow me on any social, so Instagram, Tik TOK, Facebook, all of those, it's Anita Navar, so my name.
And, but if you want to have a look at my work and my commissions and the retreats and other things that I do as well, it's. All on my website, and that's anitanavar. com. So come and say hello.
Nicole: Yes. I have all of that in the show notes that listeners can go directly there and click away and find all of your stuff.
So thank you so much for coming.
Anita Nevar: Thank you, Nicole. Thanks for having me. Of course. Truly was a pleasure.
Nicole: If you enjoyed today's episode, then leave us a five star review wherever you listen to your podcast and head on over to. to modernanarchypodcast. com to get resources and learn more about all the things we talked about on today's episode.
I want to thank you for tuning in and I will see you all next week.