204. Queering Our Religious Trauma and Sexual Liberation with Thickie Comrade
- modernanarchypodca
- Mar 22
- 59 min read
[00:00:00] Nicole: Welcome to Modern Anarchy, the podcast, exploring sex, relationships, and liberation. I'm your host, Nicole.
On today's episode, we have Thickie Comrade. Join us for a conversation all about reclaiming our pleasure. Together we talk about demonic nose piercings, rewriting the meaning of family and planting trees for future generations. Hello, dear listener and welcome back to Modern Anarchy. I'm so delighted to have all of you pleasure activists from around the world tuning in for another episode each Wednesday.
My name is Nicole. I am a sex and relationship psychotherapist with training in psychedelic integration therapy, and I am also the founder of the Pleasure Practice supporting individuals in crafting expansive sex lives and intimate relationships. Dear listener, y'all are gonna love this episode. It's so fun.
So fun. Thickie and I laugh and laugh and laugh, and. As I was editing it back, I was just thinking about the power of queer laughter. Dear listener, it has been quite the journey for me and so many of my queer community and lovers to unlearn purity culture and to thrive under these systems and to be able to laugh and find community together.
Wow. Wow. What a political act of resistance and is the community that transforms us. Right? When I was in purity culture, it was all my friends who reinforced that, and the life that I live now is surrounded by some really radical queer community, which I am so grateful for, and I really hope, dear listener, that wherever you are in the world, that you have a beautiful community of queer liberated souls that are singing and dancing and laughing with you.
All right, dear listener, if you are ready to liberate your pleasure, you can explore my offerings and resources@modernanarchypodcast.com, linked in the show notes below. And I wanna say the biggest thank you to all of my Patreon supporters. You are supporting the long-term sustainability of the podcast, keeping this content free and accessible to all people.
So thank you. If you wanna join the Patreon community, get exclusive access into my research and personal exploration, you can head on over to uh patreon.com/modern Anarchy podcast, also linked in the show notes below. And with that, dear listener, please know that I'm sending you all of my love, and let's tune in to today's episode.
[00:03:17] Thickie Comrade: I'm so excited.
[00:03:18] Nicole: Cool. Well then, yeah, the first question I ask each guest is, how would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners?
[00:03:27] Thickie Comrade: This is something that I went upon hearing this, I was like, okay, so how am I gonna answer this? Yeah. And I spent so long with it thinking about it. I love it, like in this constant state of turmoil about it, because like I, I'm in the, I just moved, um, from Minneapolis to Philadelphia.
Okay. I've like estranged myself from my family. I'm in a very like, transitionary like point in my life, so I was like, sure. Who even am I anymore? I It's such like a what A big question.
[00:03:57] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:03:57] Thickie Comrade: You know, so when I heard you ask that to start, I'm like, oh God, okay. What, how am I gonna answer this? And like, I, what I've kind of like come along in my journey of like self discovery is like I really identify with that public universal friend, but I just wanna tweak it ever so slightly.
And instead of being like. You know, for those who maybe aren't as aware, like public universal friend had some, like more like religious Quakerism that I personally am not as big of a fan of, you know, with my, uh, Christian upbringing mm-hmm. That kind of sets off a couple like signals in my head where I'm like, Ooh, I don't, I'm not trying to get involved in that.
Sure. So like, let me be a little bit less serious about myself. And so I've kind of like in my journey of finding myself, have really started to identify with this term of mom Rad. Mm.
So like, being somebody that's like unconditionally, like giving in a very like, um, uh, indiscriminate, much more open to like, um, as I kind of see myself as like a recharge station for like the people that Yeah.
I interact with where I can kind of like, I. Be that kind of person that, you know, on one hand I am, you know, maybe listening to them, hearing what they're going through, giving them that touch that maybe they need in that moment and being there for them. But then I've also come to learn that, like being a good mom, rad means also allowing myself to be helped by those people.
Sure. Yeah. So that way they can feel like they're also, you know, being a part of this relationship that we have going on. Mm-hmm. And that for me was like, and honestly still kind of is something that I am struggling with, especially like with my move, you know, I'm very poor, I've been very poor for a lot of my life.
Yeah. And so, like that move was very hard for me financially. And I had to be okay with accepting help from people in like large amounts of money, in ways that I, I am like. I would be fine if some, if I had the money to be like, here's, you know, the $400 that you're missing, I would love to help you with that.
Mm-hmm. I have no problem if I have that kind of money to help the people around me, but like Sure. To be that person that's accepting that help is so hard and like seed love. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's, um, it's something that I've, you know, as I've been learning more about myself and evolving and growing as a person, like this public mom, the public universal mom read idea in my head has been something that I'm like so identifying with, like, I Sure.
I never thought that it's kind of maybe sad, but I think a very real thing that a lot of young queer people go through similarly is that like, I never thought I was gonna live to be older than 30 years old.
Mm. So now that I'm here and older than 30 years old, I'm like. So now what do I do?
[00:07:02] Nicole: Yeah, sure, sure.
[00:07:04] Thickie Comrade: Now, now here I am and I'm living longer than I expected. Yeah. And I am still trying to figure out what exactly is going on in my life. Right. But like. I don't know. So is everybody else.
[00:07:17] Nicole: Totally. You know, like we're be 90. Everyone's trying to figure it out. Exactly. Doing the same thing going
[00:07:23] Thickie Comrade: Mm. Girl.
Figuring it out. Literally. I, that has been the most humbling thing I every time in my life, like big key moments, I'm like, I've got it figured out and at finally at like 33, I'm like, I don't have shit figured out and actually like nobody else does either. Totally.
[00:07:39] Nicole: Totally. It's fine.
[00:07:40] Thickie Comrade: We're all figuring out as we go.
[00:07:42] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Learning every single day. Yeah. So what a joy to meet you today. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And wherever you're at And wherever I'm at today. Exactly.
[00:07:50] Thickie Comrade: Exactly. Um,
[00:07:51] Nicole: and yeah, it's so hard to receive love. Right. So, so hard and so what an exciting space for me to hold for you. Yeah. And my god and your story. So I will be holding that love for you so you can let go.
Oh thank you. And uh, trust that I will do that for you today. So I know we talked a little bit about, you know, your early childhood and kind of where it started within religion, which is always us. Spicy topic for the podcast. So I'm curious, where would you wanna take me and all of the listeners in that journey for you?
[00:08:23] Thickie Comrade: Yeah, so I would say I grew up in a really small town in Minnesota. That was kind of where it all started. And there was only maybe like, I think there was only like two or three churches in the city. Uh, population was like, I don't know, I think it was like two or 3000. It wasn't very big. So you kind of, everybody knew each other and the church kind of became like, factions were like, yeah,
[00:08:47] Nicole: sure.
[00:08:47] Thickie Comrade: If you went to, you know, church X, then you were friends with the people that went to Church X. And if you, it's a sorority or somebody Yeah. You know, it became your weird to be like, so like, oh my God, I'm rallying behind this church. And it was like, I don't know. I, I think when, as I think back I'm like. I think I knew that something was amiss, but at the same time, I was so convinced that like I was going to hell for any number of reasons.
You know, every time I hear a new reason, I'm like, oh my God, I'm a sinner for that too. Like
every day it doesn't, it doesn't end. It's just you're constantly a sinner and so you just constantly like berating yourself for these things. And so the church that I was attending was very like, I think, I think they do identify now as like more non-denominational.
Like they, they've kind of like opened their doors to be more open to queer people. But with that also being said, when I came out, I, like every single person that was friends with on any kind of social media, like blocked me, deleted me. Like it was like a total shift. Like my mom was getting calls from like fourth grade teachers being like.
I can't believe you would allow your son to do this kind of thing. And I was just like, can I, I haven't, yeah.
[00:10:11] Nicole: Sorry. Can I ask how old you were at this point?
[00:10:13] Thickie Comrade: Yeah. Um, I came out pretty late. I was like 23 years old.
[00:10:16] Nicole: So you're 23 and they're messaging your mom to be like, sorry.
[00:10:20] Thickie Comrade: No, it, it's so, so
[00:10:22] Nicole: I was like, I had to know if you were a child or you're a full adult.
Like, okay.
[00:10:26] Thickie Comrade: A full grown, it gets even worse because I'm a full grown adult. I'm in college. I'm, I haven't lived in that city since fourth grade.
[00:10:34] Nicole: Whoa.
[00:10:34] Thickie Comrade: So, like these people, I have no contact, I've had no contact with.
[00:10:39] Nicole: They're worried about you
[00:10:39] Thickie Comrade: whatsoever. Yeah. And they're worried about the fact that I'm kissing boys at college.
Like, it's so, it's so, it was, it was, anyway,
[00:10:45] Nicole: salvation is on the line. Of course. I much read my God. Reach out to your mom.
[00:10:49] Thickie Comrade: No, and like this, this nose piercing, they were convinced because I, I got really sick and I was like in the hospital for two weeks. 'cause I turned out, I had Epstein Bar and West N Virus at the same time.
Oh gosh. My mom got an email from one of the old pastors that was saying something like. If your son would take out his nose ring, I can guarantee you that he would become healed because this nose ring is blocking the chakras that are allowing his body to heal properly. He was like, I'm sorry, my nose ring is not, what is it?
I got the devil. I'll give you. Maybe I got Epstein Barr from making out with a boy maybe. Sure.
But it's not because I was making out with a boy. It was because I was making out in general, not because it was a boy. It was just hilarious. You know? You know exact, yeah. It was so, but like they, they were just so like missionary about it, I guess.
Yeah. Like it was so like in affront to the church to mm-hmm. And it, like I went to, um. The church had a, um, a private school across the street. Oh no. That, um, yeah, that unfortunately I attended
[00:11:55] Nicole: O so you double down like me. You got on the weekends and the weekdays.
[00:12:00] Thickie Comrade: Every single day. I, I, I still to this day, if I hear a Bible verse that I know being recited, I'm like, oh, I know the rest of that baby.
I can recite that all the way. Totally. I, I still hear hymn like, my friends and I will crack up because I can like start singing these hymns like from nowhere. I'll just like, I'll hear a word and I'll be like, I am a C, I am a C-H.
[00:12:23] Nicole: I am a C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N yeah. I'll go right, I'll go. Let's go, let's throw down
[00:12:27] Thickie Comrade: Hys for an hour.
Exactly.
Like I and I, I, I, I'm like, I find it so hilarious. Yeah. But at the same time it like, it really started to make me realize like. How brainwashed I had become. Oh, yeah. All these things that I just kind of was like, oh, this is like a totally normal thing, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, this is just like fine.
And it's, uh, not yeah know. Um, but I, I was going to this church for, um, kindergarten through fourth grade, and there were a couple times when like, my family likes to say that I'm like an old soul. Mm-hmm. And so there were a couple times when they would like, let me go to the adult services. And I still to this day, remember like the pastor talking in one of these adult sermons about how like all of the sinners are gonna sit in a boiling pot and they're going to like grind their teeth down to the gums.
Right. And it's like this whole horror story. Yes. And I'm sitting there like, I am one of these sinners. I remember this, this sermon, and I used that sermon as a reference when I was talking to my mom about coming, when I came out to her.
[00:13:34] Nicole: Mm.
[00:13:35] Thickie Comrade: She, I was like, this is when I was going to church. You took me to this sermon.
And I remember hearing this, and I remember thinking, oh my God, if I don't do everything in my power to be as good of a Christian, whatever that means as I can, I'm gonna end up in a eternal damnation and I'm gonna be like in this boiling pot forever.
[00:13:57] Nicole: Right?
[00:13:57] Thickie Comrade: And like, I guess now I, I realize now that it was much more like communistic way of thinking rather than like the much more, you know, fascist way of thinking that Christianity has kind of been perverted into nowadays.
And so I kind of like took up more of this, like wanting to fight for everybody. And so like mm-hmm. That's. Maybe more or less where my like radicalization differs from like the rest of my family. Mm-hmm. Because like they all kind of stuck to the much more like rigidity of the teachings. And I kind of more of saw it as like a, this is like the playbook on how to get to heaven and you gotta do as many of these things so that way God will like sit there and tally it up and he'll be like, but you were kissing boys but you did go help at the food kitchen, so mm-hmm.
Maybe I'll let you in because you were at least doing these other things. Right. That was where my mind was. Sure. And so my mom like took my coming out very, like, I stunted my child in making them go to this service like every single day and every single weekend it was like. I wasn't allowed to do anything else and I took it so seriously.
'cause I was like, I can't go to hell. So I have to, I need to go to the, I need to go to the Wednesday night Awas. I need to go to like Ana, I need, I need all money, the faith
money, you know? Yeah. I do not, I had, I had to do all these things that I'm like, I hated it. Yeah. I hated it. I know. And here I am doing it.
[00:15:31] Nicole: Totally. And I'm gonna say I feel like most people I've recorded with, maybe it's, you know, confirmation bias. 'cause we're all out now. Right. But like, everyone I've recorded with about this topic is always like, I was in it and it felt wrong.
[00:15:45] Thickie Comrade: Yeah.
[00:15:45] Nicole: I don't know what it was, but something in my body was just like, okay, I, I'm hearing this, I'm in it, but like, oof.
Like this, just like we were being, and I think that's an our internal healing wisdom. Yeah. To be like, this does not feel right. Yeah. Um, yeah. Totally. So I think a lot of people went through that and, and for me, like, I mean, I call it mental abuse. Right. I have a really, yeah, yeah. I have a really hard time as a therapist, right.
Where I'm like holding cultural differences and, and allowing, you know, supporting different cultures. But the reality is, you know, apart from that job that I do, right? When I have a Christian come into my room, they're not usually there about that, right? So it's like not the point of conversation. Right.
But outside of that work, when we look at that actual culture, and it's not all of Christianity, right? But specific to the ones you were in, the ones I was in, all the other people, it's not safe to be queer, let alone kinky, non-monogamous, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But like, not even safe to be queer without going to hell.
Which is abuse. Yeah. Abuse. Abuse. And to be in a paradigm where you are taught from a young age to that, you're gonna go to hell if you sin. Right? And for me, I was taught that my thoughts, I mean, that's in the Bible, right? That if you think about murder, you've already committed it. Mm-hmm. In the eyes of the Lord, a, k, a.
Now, if I'm a really good. Christian Little girl like I was, I now have to watch every single thought in my head Exactly. Because God forbid, I thought one bad thought that could be the moment that if I get hit by a car right now, I could go straight to hell. Fuck. So then all day long I'm just going, okay, okay.
Scan thoughts, scan thoughts, scan thoughts, and now as a therapist, I'm like, that is a recipe for anxiety if I've ever heard one. Oh my God. Right. So like, yeah. I call it abuse, right? Yeah. And it's, it's not okay.
[00:17:32] Thickie Comrade: It's no, and it, it absolutely is. That's, that's, that is, I, I feel very similar and that's why I started this by saying like, I'm always down to talk about how awful the Christian religion Systemly has become, because like, I see myself as like a newer like.
You know, far left our anarchist whatever. Sure. Whatever kind of terminology. I, I, I've, yeah, thank you. I, I've kind of like within the last, like two years have kind of like really started to dive down into this journey and what it means and like, you know, becoming really critical of literally everything in my life.
And I obviously, I wouldn't wish Christianity as it is now on anyone, but I do think that it taught me to be very critical of the people in my life around me, including my family. And that's something that, like, was really hard growing up. You know, it was always like, if there's any, if there's nobody else, at least you have your parents and your brothers and your sister and whatever.
Like, there's always, at least you have your family there with you. And I could never figure out why that was like, still not enough for me. Mm. And it took me reading these more radical texts to be like. Oh, it's because these people don't love me and it's because they've been telling me that they love me and I don't know what love is anymore because it's been being robbed from me.
Mm. And I had to like, you know, start actually like taking inventory of like, what does it mean for me to say that I love somebody? You know? Why is it so hard for me to say I love you to somebody who I do love?
[00:19:04] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:19:04] Thickie Comrade: But like, I, I have a hard, I would have a hard time saying that before I started going down this journey.
I'd be like, sure. Well, that's a word I'm supposed to say for like, you know, the man of my dreams or whatever. Sure. There's not like room for that word to be used when it's not used as intended or whatever. Mm-hmm. You know? So like, I, I am very, uh, new to this journey and I am very excited for what the doors that it's opening.
Yeah. And I am just like so thankful for, you know. Well, I don't know if thankful is, may be the right word, but I appreciate what I've been through in order to, you know, really care about what I'm doing now.
[00:19:44] Nicole: Totally. Yeah, absolutely. I think we can look back on past experiences and see, see that they were painful, difficult, and also be in a space now to see, like, I see the benefits of what that journey was.
Right. Talk about you wanna talk about psychedelics later, right? Like, talk about it was a bad trip, but I learned a lot, you know what I mean? You know, I, I, I
[00:20:04] Thickie Comrade: have like, um, a little, I, I've dabbled in mushrooms here and there, and I had like the most life-changing epiphany experience where I was just like, it was so surreal and I was so happy and I was like.
I'm curious, this, this is, everyone needs to be doing this. This needs to be, this needs to be, everyone needs to be doing this. And then I did have a bad trip and I haven't touched 'em since. Not, like, it wasn't anything bad. It was like I did it all wrong. I like threw big chunks on like my mac and cheese bowl and like, it, it didn't digest very well 'cause I didn't eat anything else.
I had, I was like literally poisoned. And so like, I just had like a bad time and I was like, okay, actually maybe, maybe not, maybe, maybe this isn't the, you know, the golden tool that I thought it was, maybe this isn't the thick salt, maybe this isn't actually like hear me of all of my religious traumas, but, but I'm still like, you know, I had that, I did have that experience where I was like.
All of that weight of like constantly surveilling myself because I still unfortunately find myself doing Sure. Sometimes just with, you know, being grown up in that, you know Right. Self-regulating, you know, have to make sure I'm not having bad thoughts. Yeah. Kind of mentality. Yeah. Yeah.
You know, all of that kind of got taken off my shoulders for those like two and a half hours.
Mm-hmm. And I was like, wow, this is incredible profound. And yeah. And I would really love to like, have say that or say that I like. Took something from that experience into the non, I forget what the terminology that you wanted.
[00:21:44] Nicole: Uh, ordinary states of consciousness.
[00:21:47] Thickie Comrade: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
[00:21:47] Nicole: Yeah, because like, I'm on caffeine right now, so I'm drugged.
Let's be clear, you know? Yeah I had some tea this morning you know?
[00:21:53] Thickie Comrade: Yeah, right. I just had some caffeine before I got on here.
[00:21:55] Nicole: Like, I, so I say ordinary, whatever our ordinary is, you know? Yeah.
[00:22:00] Thickie Comrade: You know, whatever your regular is. Exactly. Yeah. Like, I, I I love that, um, that terminology that you've introduced into my life, because I, for with being, you know, raised so religious, it was, I was straight edge until I was 18.
Totally. I was like, totally was like, I'm not touching alcohol, I'm not touching anything. I, I can't even like. Kiss girls, because that might lead to me have or kiss any gender people. Right, right. Because that might lead to me thinking that I want to have sex with them. And I was still like
being in the church where I was being taught that like if I even thought about masturbating, right?
I was like already committing a sex. Right. It was like I can't do anything because if I do any of that stuff, it might make, it might make the bad thoughts come out. So like I can't touch any of that. And so like, it made me like think that like all these things were bad and then like, I found a really group, a really great group of like young, and now we've all kind of come to terms with our queerness.
But Cool. At the time we were kind of like, not, not as sure of our queerness, but like, you know, we've all kind of come out in some capacity. But like my 18th birthday, they like. I kind of got tricked into drinking alcohol, but like, I don't know, it kind of all turned out for the best. So like mm-hmm. I don't know.
Like the person told me that it was just Blue Kool-Aid, but it turned out it was UV blue. You know? I don't, it wasn't like, yeah, it was bad, but like, it was non-consensual, but, but it did end up like turning out really great because that night I drank for the first time, I smoked weed for the first time and I kissed a boy.
So like fun. It was like a really great 18th birthday that like, turned out really great.
[00:23:38] Nicole: Totally. Which, like, I think there's also, it's important to name just when you've been so repressed, right? Mm-hmm. We talk about drugs as tools, right? Yeah. Saying l being tools. Alcohol is certainly a tool for me in my first queer awakening.
Right. You turn that down instead of up. Yeah. And I felt really free to be able to express things I've always wanted to do. Right? Yeah. So I think that's an important conversation too.
[00:24:02] Thickie Comrade: Totally. Yeah. I, I'm like, yeah, introducing that like ordinary state of conscious consciousness was just like very, like eyeopening to the, I I'm, I'm not like prudish when it comes to the idea of these things anymore, but there is still some sort of like.
Underlying like, am I gonna get addicted right away? Like, I don't know. Sure. There's still like some things that like sit in my mind from all of those dare award. Yeah. You know, all of those things that I went through that like
[00:24:34] Nicole: Totally.
[00:24:35] Thickie Comrade: Yeah. In my consciousness I'm like, okay, let's be for real. It's really not that deep.
[00:24:40] Nicole: I know, but like I know,
[00:24:42] Thickie Comrade: but like in my mind there's still like that hurdle that I place for myself that like, makes this hard.
[00:24:49] Nicole: Well, totally. And I think that's where it's like the systems, right? Yeah. Where it's the systems and the way they impact us and um, right. I just think about the amount of. I don't even know how many years it took or weeks it took for me to not feel guilty on Sunday when I wasn't going to church.
Like it literally took a long time where now I can wake up on Sunday and not even think about it, right? Mm-hmm. And I think when we're, you know, looking at these, these systems, there's a lot of problematic systems that get internalized. And so it's kind of that consistent unpacking of like, oh, actually, even though that's inside my psyche, that's not really where I wanna stay.
Right? The part of my past versions of self that would've judged men or people who presented as masculine for crying, right? Or being soft is unattractive. That's years of social conditioning of rom-coms, right? Like, but once I see that, it doesn't mean we just. Stay there. We actually have to like dig that shit out.
Right. But like there's so much of that. Totally. That is deep in, and particularly with drugs, it's another one of those spaces, right? Yeah. I mean like the war on drugs and the people of color, right? With crack and cocaine, like cocaine is somehow super cool, but crack's bad, right? Like all these different things.
And like I can work in a place where we do ketamine assisted psychotherapy and like if you're injecting the needle from an intramuscular shot from a physician, that's one thing. But if you're using a needle for heroin, if you're snorting the ketamine, oh my god, now it feels like you're doing the bad drug thing.
Mm-hmm. But totally cool if the nurse practitioner comes by and gives you the needle here. Right. I guess it's in the muscle versus the vein with hair, you know, like we can get into the specifics of it, but it's all like the society and the meaning making that really shapes, shapes how we look at this.
Mm-hmm. I remember telling myself when I was younger, I was like, you know what? Because I was Christian and I was like, maybe when I'm 80 years old and I'm on my deathbed, I'll try that crazy thing called Molly. I'll try that crazy thing called mushrooms. And I'm so glad I didn't wait. But like, that's how I thought about it.
I was like, once I'm dying then I'll do it. Um, which is just so absurd too when we think about like there's um, the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. Have you heard about that? Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the thought that maybe Christianity actually was an Eastern fertility mushroom cult. Fun.
[00:27:02] Thickie Comrade: Yeah.
[00:27:03] Nicole: Fun potential origins and or just like the use of alcohol in sacrament, like the Christian Church has been using drugs.
Yeah.
[00:27:13] Thickie Comrade: You know, like, it, it's, it really, it really makes it hard for me to not like focus on how much of. Christianity specifically now is such a system of double standards that is set in place to make sure that all of the people that are attending the service continue to give the church money, and that's supposed to save them.
Like, it, it, it's really, I'm very thankful for my mom in being so understanding of my complete separation from the church entirely. Like everyone in my family knows that like, don't even bother asking if I want to go to the Sunday service because like, I'm not gonna go, or like, you know, Christmas, Thanksgiving, whatever, they all still kind of go more or less.
But like my mom has started, you know, being very vocal in at least the relationships at home in that like, I don't want to go to a church that tells me that. My son is going to be damned forever. Right. So like, I'll go to a church as long as they're not saying those things. Mm-hmm.
So like, I appreciate that.
And you know, we're, we're still kind of like, we kind of just more or less don't talk about religion at all. Yeah. Which, you know, maybe for the best, but I'm trying to be more understanding of the people that continue to practice Christianity specifically and consider themselves allies to me.
[00:28:45] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:45] Thickie Comrade: Because I, I find that contradictory because of how traumatizing and perverted, for lack of better words, I guess the Christian Church has become, and everything that I stand for now, it kind of feels like, I hate to like, draw a line in the sand of being like, it's us or it's me or them, but like. Religion is, you know, is a touchy subject in general, but I find I'm a lot more accepting of other ones other than Christianity.
And that's something that has been brought to my attention before and I'm not exactly sure if that's something that I intend on changing anytime soon. Yeah. And I, yeah, I think, you know, I've kind of like come to terms with that more or less as I have some family that live here, uh, extended family, uh, an aunt and uncle that are missionaries and they've reached out a couple times and I had to just recently send an email and just say like, I appreciate you all for, you know, the love that you showed me.
You know?
[00:29:50] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:51] Thickie Comrade: The, the maybe five times I've met, met you in my entire life. But like, I just, I don't know if there's anything for us to like talk about Yeah. Let alone like. I'm supposed to go get lunch with you and supposed to just like, like, you know, everything's fine when you're like preaching that you want me and my other comrades to burn in hell, you know that.
[00:30:18] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:18] Thickie Comrade: There's like the, the contradictory that lie within Totally. The Christian Church specifically is really hard for me to battle when it comes to keeping an open heart and an open mind to people that want to. Become more radical in their thinking and more critical in their everyday life. Yeah.
[00:30:39] Nicole: Right. Yeah. Such a tricky space to be in, particularly when it's your family. Right. Hard, really difficult. And I think, you know, ultimately we don't have to be friends with our abusers. Right. Right. So let's put that out there. Like boundaries against our abusers are helpful. Yeah. And necessary.
[00:30:58] Thickie Comrade: Right. And, and it makes it even harder when that's like, you know, family.
Your family. Oh yeah. And you know, it, it finding the, the concept of family abolition, that kind of is what sparked my like, really like radicalized journey and really kind of how I see myself as like this public universal friend figure mm-hmm. Is like, I see my former self as like dying before I started learning about this stuff.
And as I've kind of like come to terms with. What does family abolition mean at all, let alone to mean, but what does that mean to me specifically? Has really like made myself become okay with like, being this queer person that like doesn't have these attachments to these my abusers. You know, like that my family was my abusers.
And so that's been like a, a hard journey to, you know, reclaim and that like, even trying to become more comfortable with, uh, presenting myself as the name that I've chosen for myself instead of the name that my family had given me, which is, you know, sure. A very biblical name. It's something that I don't, I, I, I would like to try to distance myself as much as I can from that.
Sure. But there's still like this weird like. If I introduce myself by my nickname, then these people don't know me. But it's like, no, those people know me probably better for knowing me for the nickname rather than Sure. The name that my family has given me. Mm-hmm. Because while yes, I've identified as that name for like 32 years, it's something that like I don't identify with now.
Right. Which has also been a very interesting journey for me.
[00:32:50] Nicole: Totally.
[00:32:50] Thickie Comrade: I find myself still like deadnaming myself when I'm out at the bars and I'm like, why am I doing this to myself? Yeah. Why am I doing this to myself? Like, I'm in a whole new city. I'm so far away from anyone who knew me by that name.
Like, w why am I holding onto this? Totally. Totally. And so yeah, I, I, I'm very interested in the psychedelic healing of being able to just shed myself of that like former being and allowing myself to find. Newer ways of like love and expression that I think would be, you know, maybe you can attest to this.
I feel like that would be a helpful tool for that because when I had taken those shrooms, I had maybe only came out like two or three years after that, but I had very, like, I had this like epiphany sitting on my friend's like couch in the garage and I'm like looking outside and looking up at the stars.
I'm like, I am so small.
[00:33:50] Nicole: Mm.
[00:33:50] Thickie Comrade: This whoever, if there is some creator that's like way up there or whatever, yeah. There's no way that they are concerned about if I'm kissing boys or not. There's just no way.
[00:34:01] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:02] Thickie Comrade: There's no way that that's what this person, whatever this, this figure is concerned about. That trip really helped me.
Like that was probably the one big takeaway from that trip was like, I had this like. I've been holding onto this for so long and it totally, like, I've known this, but like I didn't allow myself to feel this until now.
[00:34:23] Nicole: Mm-hmm. Profound. Yeah. And to be able to like, take that, you know, and still integrate it as we're having this conversation of how it's landing with you and moving forward.
Right. If I was doing some therapy integration, like how does that move and practice? Let's go deeper. Right. So, but I, I just, I don't know how this will land for you or not, so you can let me know, but, um, I like reclaiming spirituality outside of the frameworks of religion has been a long journey for me.
And I was just thinking about how, you know, it's so funny like we, um. I guess first I'll say I believe that whoever the creator is of the universe, or whatever the hell that is, I think that they want love. And I think that they want us to be in loving connection with one another. And one of the ways that I do that is through pleasure in the body.
Yeah. And so I believe in the divine power of that. I first just gotta name that. But then beyond that, when you were talking just about like your story, right? Thinking about, remember when people would get up and they'd give their like testimony, like, here you are giving your testimony to me and thousands of listeners, right?
Of like, here it is. You know? Yeah. And then to be talking about how that part of you in the past was dead. Right. Thinking just about the baptism metaphors of like, you know, we died and come out like, so that part of you is dead. And then you were talking about your name. Right. And even in the Bible, they would give people the disciples when they transformed to be like, here's your name, your new name moving forward.
Right? Like. All these different ways that it kind of like parallels. I think it can be hard, you know? 'cause the second we say spirituality, it almost just goes straight into the trauma. But there's still so much of a spiritual journey, so much, you know, unfolding in this space for you and unfolding further.
Right. So, yeah, I just hold that, but I mean, I'm happy to dive into the psychedelics part too. I, yeah,
[00:36:11] Thickie Comrade: no, for sure. We could definitely do that. I, I'm so interested in that. I will say, before we pivot too far from it, I really, I, I've become, I've been reading, uh, braiding Sweetgrass, and now I'm gonna, I've heard of, forget who the author is, but it's very much like, kind of like becoming more attuned to nature mm-hmm.
And the planet itself. And like,
[00:36:36] Nicole: yeah.
[00:36:36] Thickie Comrade: I, I find so much, I, I don't wanna say necessarily similarities, but there is like this like spiritual aspect of the book that I, I find. Very reassuring, I guess. Yeah. Um, there was always like this, this aspect of Christianity, it was always like such like a hard battle for me in my head because I would feel this like love from the people around me in this church that we're like it giving my, my family food in order for us to eat.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Like there was like so much of this like love and care Yeah. That was like being shared. And so I was like, there is this like love and compassion that's there, there's so many different things that you have to do in order to get it. So like, it's not really free. And I think that's more or less where like the braiding sweetgrass comes in mm-hmm.
Where it's kind of like these things are given to us by the planet. We have to work in tandem with it. So like, you have to be willing to like, do things in order to help keep the planet alive. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. As these, like as capitalism continues to choke out the planet, you know, like there is like a certain spirituality that comes with the, the world around us that I've become so much more open to.
Mm. Whereas I was so hard stuck in like, if I hear any kind of religion, I don't want any part of it. Right. And I'm like, well, maybe there's something to be said about the intention of like going out and doing these things in order to provide for the next generation mm-hmm. That comes after us. Where it's like you're not necessarily, you know, making these, uh.
In the book, there's this metaphor that she talks about where when you plant a tree, you're realizing that the tree that you're planting isn't for your immediate usage. Yeah. It, it's going to be like two or three generations down before that tree becomes something that's like providing shame and shelter.
You know, it's like you have to do these things and make these intentions to help the planet and help the ecosystem. Mm-hmm. Do these things that aren't just, you know, loving and caring for your neighbor is also, you know, obviously very important to me also. Right. But like, there's even more that we can be doing that I would, I'm not necessarily gonna put like a hierarchy to it, obviously.
I don't want to like, sure. Say that you need to do this before you do this, but the braiding Sweetgrass book has made me realize that like, I haven't been doing that as much as I should. Mm-hmm.
[00:39:20] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:20] Thickie Comrade: And I think that there is a lot of my life that I. Won't say is gonna be fixed with it, but I am curious to see where that goes versus the, uh, more psychedelic aspect of things or maybe how those things can work in tandem.
Um, totally together. Yeah.
[00:39:38] Nicole: Yeah. I mean, when I'm, I love when certain books speak to us, right? Almost. Yeah. Like, like sacred text, right. I definitely have totally a handful of books I'm thinking of in my head that I've read again and again and felt like, oh, there's just something in there. And I, I wanna have even that book with me.
Even, um, sometimes we'll invite, um, during the psychedelic experience for people to be, bring objects that are meaningful, right? So sometimes people will bring books, like I've had clients bring different books that were like, Hmm, there's something in here. Right? Um, and a lot of what I'm hearing out of that is, is, you know, the longevity.
Or at least for me, I find a lot of peace with death and the inevitability of that coming. Mm-hmm. Knowing that people have lived before me and people live after me as long as we don't kill the world with climate change too hard. But, um, just knowing where I'm at in the lineage. Right. Knowing that. You know, I can claim my sexual liberation today and claim my queerness and my relationship anarchy identity because of the people who have quite literally died, right?
The trans, the people of color, all the people of queer, you know, identity that have died. For me to be in a space right now to have this conversation without. Fear. Right? Absolutely.
[00:40:48] Thickie Comrade: Yeah.
[00:40:49] Nicole: I'm a part of standing on those shoulders and knowing that, yeah, the trees we plant today will build even more shade for future generations when we're having these conversations.
And so that gives me some level of, you know, just peace, I guess, knowing that I am gonna die and just like those other people, like the people will carry on the lineage. And I think that kind of like earlier when we were talking about systems to dig up, um, the, the system of, particularly within Western culture, it's so individualistic particularly, we even have like a hierarchy of needs.
Maslow. Yeah. Where like literally at the top is the individual. Damn it. You know, like compared to like. The community. Oh yeah. Like, wow, like I'm gonna die and the community is important. Let me think about that. Maybe being the highest thing rather than myself. Holy shit. You know? So like hearing the, the, the book that you were talking about and the trees and the longevity of it.
Thinking back to community, I think that does tie into psychedelics because you know, psychedelics are a tool and it's a non-specific amplifier. Sure. Some of them are more ston, you know, affect our serotonin levels. You know, ketamine more effective of the glutamate level. Like there are things going on there.
But you can take a psychedelic and be surrounded by business capitalists who then say, oh my God, this is so amazing. How do we control this charge thousands of dollars that we can go on our private jet. Versus having an experience in a community. We're like, wow, that was really profound. I'm feeling held and.
The war on drugs and that's fucked up. How do we start activists? You know, like yeah, those are radically different spaces. The drug the same, but the community circle rather different. Totally. Right. And so I think that like, even that conversation about drugs, it's really where's the community and, and and how are they shaping your thought process?
'cause we're all shaped by our community. That's what really was so difficult about Christianity, is everyone around us looked and had the same value system and reinforced that system. And so to get out literally takes closing of doors to those people.
[00:42:58] Thickie Comrade: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:59] Nicole: Until we get into a space where I can be like, oh yeah, I was in the dungeon this weekend.
I was queer. Like you having a party. You know, my friends are like, hell yeah. What'd you do? You know? Versus like, maybe my mom or Christian folks.
[00:43:11] Thickie Comrade: Oh my God,
[00:43:12] Nicole: what? You know, like
[00:43:14] Thickie Comrade: I, the things that I have been getting up to since moving here. Like, I, I had a thought the other day when I was thinking about, you know.
How, how are rated or what is the,
[00:43:28] Nicole: um, what a juicy question. There is no limit here. Okay. Raw.
[00:43:33] Thickie Comrade: Okay. Great. Yes. Um, so I, I had a very fun weekend, uh, last weekend in which I, um, was at a gay bar and I was, you know, talking to a couple different boys and one thing led to another and mm-hmm. You know, there was lots of fondling, dick sucking Sure.
In the bar. And it was like this very, like, I can't believe that I'm here and doing this. Like 15 years ago I didn't think I was going to be alive for another day. Totally, totally. Let alone. Now I am like, so, like unapologetically queer and loving the life that I have where I am able to like, go to these spaces and do these things with like, other queer people where like, you know.
50 years ago now that would, that this was a distant idea. Ah, like this was something that like, was, so I, I obviously, I, I, I, I wasn't alive then, so I don't know. But I, I'm sure that these things were probably happening in some capacity Right. In some places. But like, there was just something so liberating about it Oh, absolutely.
To be able to do it now. And so I'm just like thinking about, you know, as I want to continue pushing that boundary even further and like, I find the abolition of family to be something that I've been told is too utopian to dream for, but it's like, if those people 50 years ago weren't fighting for what I have now, then I wouldn't be able to do these things that make me so happy.
Like I mm-hmm. It, it was so like being able to be in these like openly queer spaces and being able to do these things where it's like. Being unapologetically queer and, and embracing each other and being able to like, love each other and feel each other in a very, like, open place was like mm-hmm. So liberating that like,
[00:45:32] Nicole: yeah.
[00:45:32] Thickie Comrade: It, it, I can't recommend it enough. Everybody needs to go and do it.
[00:45:36] Nicole: Yeah. To be able to experience pleasure and your body and intimacy and connection. Right. And there's totally endless ways to play with that, which is some of, many joys of life. The endless ways that you can play with that. I'm, yeah. My brain's already spinning so many different ideas, but that's, that's why I'm the host of this podcast of Sex and Relationships.
'cause it is profound and it's divine like you're having. I don't know what could be more divine than to be able to experience that pleasure in your body and share that with other people or on your own. That's cool too. Yeah. But to be able to share it and co-create that energy. Yeah. With other people of ecstasy in the body, how totally gorgeous and yes.
To think about the people in the past who were literally killed for that, right. For you to have that, I do think it is then your responsibility to enjoy that pleasure and to carry that so much even further and you know, like really hold that with pride. I think that's an important part of it, is like, you know, I have so much privilege, what do I wanna do with that?
I wanna scream about these things and tell you what I'm doing because I know the shade that I'm building for future generations. Exactly.
[00:46:45] Thickie Comrade: Exactly. And that's why I'm just like, you know, I, I am kind of voyeuristic in my tendencies, but like even if you're not, I highly recommend at least just like. Doing a little PDA in a, in a dark room.
I don't, there's something just so like, it doesn't have to be secretive, but like Right.
[00:47:04] Nicole: And there's, there's conceptual spaces to do that in. Right, totally. Like in my city. Totally. There are, 'cause like consent obviously becomes a question, right. And I think in gay bars there's a very normalized culture of this, and I think that's important for the conversation here.
Um, so then like within, you know, dungeon spaces within the city, you can go to spaces where that is the point. And like Yeah. Is that church for me? Right. Maybe, you know, maybe, you know what, there's a lot,
[00:47:32] Thickie Comrade: honestly, after this last weekend that was something that I like. I was like, oh, this is what those people were feeling on those Sunday mornings.
Like this is why these people were speaking in tongues. Like, I get it now. Yeah, I am now I am like, oh my God, this is the most unpleasurable feeling ever that I'm able to like be openly queer with these people around me and like experience this and like, yeah, like you said, consent is, is necessary in these spaces.
And that is something that as being a very like cis presenting queer person that I have been kind of reconciling with recently in that when I was a lot younger, I've always kind of been more voyeuristic, but I didn't, um. I didn't understand why when it was not on my terms, I didn't like it. But when it was on my terms, I liked it.
You know what I mean? Had to consent. Huge. Yeah. Yeah. And so now as I'm older and I'm in these spaces where it's like all these people are consenting to this, everyone that's in this place knows what's going on. Right. And they're okay with it. Right. And so now I like it. Right. But when I was, when I was younger and I was like trying to navigate these queer spaces and like kind of talking about it with the people around me and they're like, oh, let's just go for it.
And I'm like, well, but I'm not trying to make anybody else have a bad time. Right. And like, I didn't have the voice to be able to stand up for myself. And so like I was kind of like, mm, I say prudish now, but I don't necessarily think that my reaction was prudish at the time. It was just, I was like. I don't want this because I don't, and that that should be enough.
But like, right. I, I, I didn't have the terminology to describe that, and so I was just like, why is, why, why am I not being heard? Why, why, why, why is my, why is what I'm saying not being understood, and now I'm learning that, you know. There's more to it than that.
[00:49:25] Nicole: Totally. I mean, consent is huge, right? Yeah.
When I am walking down the street being catcalled and objectified, I'm not consenting to that in the same way. Totally. If I set up a scene where I'm asking to be the bottom or the sub and say, please objectify me and play with that, and the difference there being consent and the power, right? I mean, that's totally huge.
So I think our culture is so like, such a like broad brush strokes of sex because it's so puritanical and shame laden that like we can't even get into the nuance of this, of like, Hey, that's why this is really fun here when you're consenting to it and not fun on the street, right? Like those are, I just get angry with the feminists who are like, none of this can be feminist.
I'm like, oh man. Like there's a. Power in saying, please objectify me and hit me with the paddle. Right? Like, I, I want feel that sensation in my body. Like damnit, like, so, I mean, I, I get up in, um, uproars about that one, but, uh, I,
[00:50:19] Thickie Comrade: I am right there with you, you know, like I really am, like, it's, um, it's something that I'm, you know, like I said, it's, it's all kind of new things for me that I'm learning and experiencing and allowing myself to experience, but like, not to continue on to this old thing that we've already rehashed, but like when I was younger and I would go to these gay bars and like, I.
There's one example that I always think of in which, like, I was, first time I had come out mm-hmm. I, I was like, my gay cousin took me to a bear bar because she was like, this is where you're gonna have the most fun 'cause people are gonna be into you there. And I'm like, yeah, young, like 23 years old.
Literally came out that day. I was like,
okay, sure, let's go. Yeah.
[00:51:01] Nicole: Cute.
[00:51:01] Thickie Comrade: And I go, yeah. I go so naive. Go to the bath. Yeah. I go to the bathroom and this guy follows me and asks me if I need help. And I was like,
[00:51:08] Nicole: yeah. Oh, no.
[00:51:09] Thickie Comrade: Confused. I'm like, no more than just help my friend. Yeah. I, I, I, I, I was like, I've been doing this for 23 years, I think I know how to pee.
And then the person just grabs me and I was like, whoa. Hey. Like, you know? Yeah. I, I said no.
[00:51:26] Nicole: Right? Yes.
[00:51:27] Thickie Comrade: I, I said no. And, and you, and you continued on a anyway, and, ugh. Um, I, sorry. No, it, it, it's. It's, it's, it's not Okay. But I, I have moved on from it. Sure. I, I have, I've processed it. I have, you know, it, it taught me that the reason why certain times when I was doing things and I didn't like it, and I couldn't figure out why, I was like, oh, it's because I'm not consenting to it.
And while yes, I do like to put on a show, I don't, I don't necessarily always want to put on a show. Mm-hmm. And so when I want to set up that boundary of, I'm only doing it in spaces where everyone that's around me is consenting to it. Right. That makes it more fun.
[00:52:10] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:10] Thickie Comrade: Whereas like when I'm going to the bar and some random person is just deciding to, deciding for me that I'm putting on a show.
Right. And I'm not intending to put on a show. That's what makes it not fun, but like mm-hmm. When I was younger, I, I was like, I couldn't figure out what it was. I was like, why did that experience like. It kind of made me start to like question if I was be gay, to be honest, because I was just like, you know, like maybe for these last like 15 years that I've been struggling with my identity, maybe I'm not actually, and maybe I've been making this up all along, but not the case.
But, you know, I,
[00:52:48] Nicole: I've been there
[00:52:49] Thickie Comrade: young mind trying to figure out religion, trying to figure out what's going on, why you feel certain ways.
[00:52:55] Nicole: Uh, totally.
[00:52:55] Thickie Comrade: And you know, yeah, you get it.
[00:52:57] Nicole: The amount of the amount of days I spent going, am I a lesbian or queer, lesbian? Queer, lesbian. Queer, you know? And then I was like, stop asking the question to call and just enjoy yourself.
And I think there's so many different ways where that's true. And I, um, I started dating someone who's, uh, newer to like the kink world and all the things. And I was telling him, I was like, oh yeah, we could go to one of the dungeons. Yeah. Like, we go like, just to watch. We don't have to do anything. We can just go observe.
We can just go be voyeurs, you know? Hell yeah. And he was like, you know, I don't really think the voyeur thing does it for me. Like it doesn't really excite me. And I was like, really? I was like, do you watch porn? And he was like, yeah. Oh, I was,
was like, see, I mean, you don't have to go to the dungeon with me. We don't have to do that. But I will make the assumption that if you're watching porn, you like to be a foer, there's Yeah.
[00:53:53] Thickie Comrade: A little bit of something, you know, there's at least a little kernel that maybe we can just dig into and see where it goes.
And if it doesn't go anywhere, then it doesn't go anywhere. But, you know, I, I, I find I had a very, um, very good, like first boyfriend for lack of better words, experience in that the person that I was kind of dating was very much into like an open relationship. And I being, you know, freshly out and was in the church for so long, I was like, Nope, if I'm doing gay, I've gotta be monogamous.
Like, sure. I, I have to. Yeah. And he was very like. Open to giving me that space while being like, okay, but like if we're going to continue, like I do want it to be an open relationship at some point. Yeah. And like, it ended up not working out because I didn't want to, and now I'm like much more open. He's married and committed to his partner.
It's very funny talk. We talked about it all.
[00:54:50] Nicole: It changes my friends, it changes.
[00:54:53] Thickie Comrade: He taught me this, like this, this proverb as I like to refer to it as, 'cause I'm so brainwashed in the Christianity, but Sure. Um, this, I'll try anything twice because maybe the first time was the wrong person.
[00:55:07] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[00:55:07] Thickie Comrade: And I, I've, you know, there's obviously my own certain things that I, maybe I'm not as open to trying, but it did make me more open to, you know, maybe being in a more like open, non-monogamous, uh, not exactly sure.
You know, at the time I wasn't exactly sure where I fell in that spectrum. Yeah. But I, it opened that door for me and I was very thankful for him doing that because prior to that, I was just like, I was already like, I'm barely okay with being gay.
[00:55:40] Nicole: Right.
[00:55:41] Thickie Comrade: Like, now I, now I need to battle with Okay. But my boyfriend's also wanting to go have fun with other people.
And I was like, how do I do this? Yeah. And now I'm like, the more power to you.
[00:55:54] Nicole: You know?
[00:55:54] Thickie Comrade: Like, if, if that's what you wanna do, go play.
[00:55:56] Nicole: Go play on the playground, come home to me please. Please.
[00:55:59] Thickie Comrade: You know, and even then it's like, if you don't come home, I don't care. Totally. Like, I don't know, I, I'm so, um, I've become so like, open to just like allowing people to love and play however they want.
Totally. And as long as like, I don't know, as long as you're open to even having the touch of listening to me, that's kind of all I really need in order to feel like. Being in a relationship in some capacity with the person and
[00:56:31] Nicole: Right.
[00:56:31] Thickie Comrade: These are things that I never would've thought about. And when I moved here, I had kind of told my mom, like, I was like trying to explain to her like how I was thinking about my life.
'cause she was like asking me like, okay, well was, are you still thinking about getting married? And I was like, no. Like, don't plan on getting married anytime soon. Yeah. And she was like, okay, well is there gonna be like a partner that we're gonna meet one day? And I was like, probably not. Yeah. 'cause I don't want there to be any kind of like rehashing of old things with the family.
Mm-hmm. And like, I'm gonna try my best to, you know, keep the option open if there is somebody important to me to at least introduce them to you. But like, I'm not gonna force my partner to meet the family. Yeah. Because y'all are, you know. My abusers. So I'm not, I'm not gonna force anyone to go through that, let alone make me go through that again.
Mm-hmm. Um, and now I forgot where I was going with that.
[00:57:29] Nicole: No, that's okay. I mean, yeah, that, I think that makes sense to have those boundaries. Mm-hmm. And I, I think just thinking about the journey, right? Change is the only constant. And yeah, the first time I heard about open relating, I was like, hell no. If you loved me, I'd be enough.
Right? And then you're like, oh, okay. And then you get into it and you're like, oh my, I, I don't know about you, but like the first time my partner's with other people, I was like, oh my God. You know? And then like a few years later you're like, oh, this, this is okay. Like, this is fine. Yeah. And this is where I think it's really fascinating to get to the space of like purity culture and a lot of that.
And then they look at us and they're like, you're so obsessed with the sex. You're so obsessed. I'm like. I really don't care if my partner is playing a board game with someone or fucking them. Like, it really doesn't matter. Like, like you said, the most important thing is are they spending quality time with me?
Yeah. They can go spend quality time with other people. What they do in that quality time, I don't care. Use protection. Totally. So we're all safe. Of course. But like, I assume that you use protection in all areas of your life, right? So that you keep all of your communities safe. Right. But like
[00:58:30] Thickie Comrade: Right.
[00:58:31] Nicole: I'm not the one that's obsessed with sex as much as you are.
[00:58:36] Thickie Comrade: Well, and if I am obsessed with sex, so what? It's fine. Totally. And you should be also,
[00:58:40] Nicole: that's how I worship's how I worship. Yes. You know, like gonna sad. Yeah.
[00:58:45] Thickie Comrade: I, I, I'm like, it's, it's very similar to how I feel and like when people tell me that I'm being selfish for choosing myself over trying to be there for my family, it's like, who else is going to be there for me, if not myself?
Like, what else am I supposed to be centered on? Mm-hmm. If not myself, like. I've tried this whole centering myself on this like Christian religion, and that was disastrous. I, that is definitely not the answer. And right now, this being centered on myself is doing wonders for me. So I'm gonna continue doing this until it's not, and then maybe I can reassess that and maybe then we can have the conversation and figure out, you know, maybe there is more room for me to be less self-centered or whatever that even means anymore.
But like,
[00:59:35] Nicole: right.
[00:59:35] Thickie Comrade: You know, it, it, it, it's hard when you grow up. So like you, you're told that you need to be selfless, but then all of the actions of the church are selfish. Yeah. So it's like, how do you, this, you know, young religious person, how do you, do you follow what people are saying in that you need to be selfless or do you follow the church's selfishness and like.
[00:59:59] Nicole: Yeah.
[01:00:00] Thickie Comrade: I don't know. There's definitely a, a need for both, but I think that, you know, selfishness is not always a bad thing, especially when it comes to wanting to go out and do the things that you want to do. Oh, yeah. Like talk, talk to people, you wanna go fuck.
[01:00:19] Nicole: Right. Totally. Yeah. I think that it's, it's, it's like a very nuanced conversation of what does that word mean and what does it look like in Praxis?
Right. Because you're right, you could. You know, have difficult relationships with your family and relationships that you want to take space from and have boundaries with. And someone could come back and say, that's selfish of you. I don't think that it is selfish to have boundaries that protect your wellbeing.
Right, right. But someone could look at that and be like that selfish. Right? Yeah. And so if that's true, then like hell yeah. Be selfish. Right? Exactly.
And then we don't wanna go to the opposite state of the like open non monogamy folks who are so self that they don't even think about how their actions are impacting other people.
Yeah. You know? So like, it's like center yourself and your community at the same time folks.
[01:01:08] Thickie Comrade: Exactly. Like you've gotta find that balance. Like there are certain times when, at least for me, there is certain times when being selfish is literally like, what saved my life? Like if I were to, if I would've continued down that journey.
And I remember, like I had came to my mom when I was like 16 years old and I was like having this like. Really, I mean, just like, you know, typical teenage depression plus like I'm a queer person that's stuck in a church with like all these other things. And I was like, you know, really feeling at the end of my rope.
And I like, came to my mom and I was just like, I think what I said to her was like, I wish I could just fall asleep and not wake up.
[01:01:49] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[01:01:49] Thickie Comrade: And she sent me to the church pastor to have me talk with the church pastor. And I remember like, wow. Trying to find the words to tell him that like, I think I'm gay and I don't know what to do about that.
Yeah. And I, I couldn't because that was the pastor of the church, so I ended up spending all this time. More or less thinking that like, this is just like something that I'm going to have to live with or something that I'm just gonna have to like, have this secret mm-hmm. Of like, I, I would tell myself like, oh, I'm just like never gonna come out.
Mm-hmm. Like, I'll just continue to like live in this like secret life. Yeah. Where I like do these things on the side and no one knows. And it became like so unbearably miserable that I was finally, I had to be like, I'm going to die if I do not start focusing on what I need and start going after those things that I need for me.
[01:02:49] Nicole: Right.
[01:02:49] Thickie Comrade: I need to start being selfish. Right. And start like, you know, really searching for what it is that I'm missing in my life. And that turned out to be that like, sense of touch of not even just like, you know, physicality of like touching someone else, but also just like being heard in a way that's like.
This person actually cares about me. Yeah. And isn't just like being there to listen to me so that way I, you know, am able to go to church next Sunday. Right. Which was essentially what I was being given and Right. You know, it, it, yeah. So I, I, I kind of struggle with that or not struggle. I, I, I like to talk about that, you know, need to be selfish while also totally being selfless for the community, because I'm gonna forget who the author of it is, but there's this like review of Alexandra Collin, Ty's Red Love, and it talks about how this concept of red love, which I've kind of come to terms with it being more close to like relationship anarchy.
And it's like this ability to build like. And free relationships, sexual and non-sexual, focusing on the self and also the community. It's like, yeah, this, I forget exactly the statement and the wording, but it's like it had such an impact on my brain that I was like, so cool. This life is constantly this balance.
Like you have to be able to like play with these different, like sexual and non-sexual and yeah, like work and non-work and you know, all these different aspects of life. It's like this constant balance and it's not just one or the other. And so that the relationship anarchy like. Finding this avenue has really been very life changing for me.
Yeah. And I'm like so excited that it's like being given the time and energy that curves finally. Yeah. For me, it's what it feels like finally. So I don't, I don't know. I, I, I, I, I find it very funny because like, I was so like in the closet in so many different ways that like, all of this stuff feels new, and I'm like, why haven't anyone been talking about this?
[01:05:01] Nicole: I know.
[01:05:02] Thickie Comrade: It's like, oh, I guess people have been talking about it. I just haven't been aware of it, but I'm like, this needs to be talked about more then, because more people need to hear about how life changing and how lifesaving this can be.
[01:05:15] Nicole: Absolutely. Really to see the beauty of all of our relationships.
Right. And all the different capacities and the freedom and
yeah, the intentionality. Yeah. I mean, that sounds like an, uh, relationship anarchy. Right. I'll have to check it out and Yeah. I, oh,
[01:05:30] Thickie Comrade: well, I, I will also say like. You know, Alexandra Linty is also like a Bolshevik, so she was also like involved with Stalin.
There was also like, oh, fascinating. There. There's also some like critiques to go with it. So like, you know
[01:05:44] Nicole: Sure,
[01:05:45] Thickie Comrade: totally. You, you get all of our heroes are human. Are humans a complicated path. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Like totally. And yeah. You know, be critical. That's, that's, yeah. Honestly, like, I know it's like, it feels redundant to say, but like, I, I, I love like recommending these things to people and then also being like, and also,
and also like, you know, here's some other things like, you know, just keep in, keep, keep in mind like, you know.
What this person was up to and like, why they made it, might have written it in such a way. Like, I, I, I, I'll be honest, I didn't read all of Red Love, so I don't know all there is to it, but I I sure. I find the concept to be very akin to relationship anarchy. Yeah. And so that kind of like sparked me into like diving more into that rather than like
[01:06:30] Nicole: mm-hmm.
[01:06:30] Thickie Comrade: A full understanding of what Colin Ty was talking about in Sure. Talking about red love, like Sure. That, that statement enough for was for me was like, okay, I'm sold.
[01:06:40] Nicole: Got it. Yeah. I'm sure you'll love all the different relationship anarchy interviews I have. Yeah.
[01:06:46] Thickie Comrade: I, I, I, trust me, I, I've been like going back and like playing through all these old episodes that I've, like, like I said, I've become a new, a newly fan and so I'm like recommending it to everybody.
Love that. I was like having a little listen group with some friends online the other day. Yeah. It was very fun.
[01:07:03] Nicole: That's so cool. Yeah. That's so cool. I love to hear that.
[01:07:06] Thickie Comrade: You know, I, I I, I have like this sort of, um. I don't know this like double way of thinking about it in that like, obviously like the numbers are good, we love to see these content, this content, like get the views and the listens that it deserves.
Right? But then like my, my one, listen, even though it's just, it's only displaying it as one person listening, there's probably like five or six other people that are also listening to it. And so like I, I love to be able to like show and exper share this with other people, but then I'm also like. But if each one of you wouldn't listened to it on your own, that would've been like five or six more listens.
You know what I mean?
[01:07:47] Nicole: That's okay. I'm just happy to hear that you were talking about it in community. I don't give a shit how many listens that actually making ripples. I love that. That's great. Like, that's, that, that's gonna change lives. I don't care how many plays, like it's changing psyches and that's like real social change.
Grassroots.
[01:08:03] Thickie Comrade: That's cool. Totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I, I just, I've dabbled in YouTube content creation myself, and so like, I, yeah, I, I, I, I, I have a very similar belief to you in that like, as long as it's causing conversation to be made, like the first video that I made, like, didn't it, it's not like a banger, it's not like thousands of views.
It's got like 500 views. It's not like anything crazy, but like, it, it opened so many conversations with people that I had either fallen out of con, like taught conversation with, or it. I opened whole new friendships that like I would've never thought,
yeah, were would've been possible. Like people that I thought that I'd like discounted as like, they're probably not even gonna watch, let alone give me any space to actually hear what I have to say.
And then they like. Come back and they're like, Hey, I, not only did I watch this, but this was like one of the more profound things. I'd love to hear more about it. And I'm like, oh my God. That's all I, that's all I ever wanted with this. Yeah. So like I have a very similar idea as you in that like, as long as these things are creating conversation and causing ripples to be made, that's, yep.
That's really all I care about. Absolutely. But I also understand the grind of like, the algorithm and trying Sure, sure.
[01:09:22] Nicole: Totally reality.
[01:09:23] Thickie Comrade: Trying to get, trying to get, you know, more listen so that way you can actually like, you know, afford to survive in life and like, you know, I don't know. I, it feels like
[01:09:33] Nicole: they're big.
They're
big roar.
[01:09:35] Thickie Comrade: Trust me, I've been struggling for so long with mine. I didn't, I didn't even end up graduating. I like ran outta money and I had to like drop out and I'm like. Now I have $50,000 in student debt. Now what do I do
[01:09:47] Nicole: that's low compared to what I've running up. But the doctor is in insane
[01:09:50] Thickie Comrade: I, I believe it.
I believe it. Trust me, I believe it. I can't even your
[01:09:56] Nicole: social justice platform for that one. One day to ran. Talk about that. But that's a later down the career path. Totally.
[01:10:02] Thickie Comrade: Totally.
[01:10:03] Nicole: Yeah. But I really appreciate you coming into the space today and creating another beautiful conversation to share with the world that will have ripples out into consciousness.
Mm-hmm. And so I really wanna thank you for that. And so before we end, I always like to take a deep breath with my guests.
Let's see if there's anything else that you wanted to say to the listener. Otherwise I can guide us towards a closing question.
[01:10:34] Thickie Comrade: The last thing that I would like to leave with the listener was also another question that upon listening I. Listening to the podcast. Yeah. I struggled with what is it that I would like people to take away from listening to our conversation.
Yeah. And at the end of the day, I really think that the need for people who are older and more experienced need to be willing to listen and work with and help young people. I, I think that is, I. Going to be the only way that we are going to be able to see any kind of long-term change in the world.
Because unfortunately for people like me who have been forced through this very traumatic experience of being forced into a very religious home and family and life, there's a lot of damage that's been done to me that, you know, I, I've been processing and working through and have become a better person for it.
We're going to need to create space for these young people to grow where they don't have to go through these traumatizing things in order to become powerful and self-actualizing. Mm-hmm. And I think that starts with, at the very least, starting to just have conversations with children as, as maybe as scary and daunting as that sounds.
Being able to treat young people in your daily life as if they are just like you or I is going to be so profound for them.
[01:12:24] Nicole: Mm-hmm.
[01:12:24] Thickie Comrade: And honestly, in my experience, it's so profound for me. Like the first time a young person asked me what my gender was kind of like blew me back. I was like, I'm sure I can't believe that we are at a place where a young person is asking me.
Like a 7-year-old at the grocery store I was working at asked me, what pronouns do you use? I was like, wow, I can't believe that we've come so far that like a, someone who is like a parent was like grabbing something else. Like this person is just like asking me how I identify. I can't believe that that's where we are today.
Because like that was not something that I would've ever thought to do when I was that young. Mm-hmm. And I'm just like, if we continue to like. Give these young people the space to grow and learn and fumble and help them up because they're gonna fall, they're gonna make mistakes and they're going to need an experienced hand to help them in a non-coercive way.
That's just like, it's okay to make these mistakes, but here's how you can maybe do it better in the future. And like, I think that for me. The Youth Liberation aspect of the Radical Left has been unfortunately forgotten over the years, and I think that it is so vital to moving forward because again, all of these things are not for us.
It's for the future generations to come. Mm-hmm. And so that means that you have to willing to listen to the young person in your life that you maybe think like discredit and discount and like, yeah, maybe, maybe they do are, maybe they are young and naive and don't know any better. And maybe, maybe, maybe you do know better.
I, I'm not gonna say that all children are like the epitome of perfect or whatever. Like I have my sister bullies. I know that young people can be very mean. I'm very aware of that fact. Right. But it's also, you know, like important to be like, but why is this young person being so mean to me? Why is this young person's initial reaction to be so hateful?
Like, yeah, there are certain aspects of these things that are much more hierarchical that we don't think about, and we just kind of like. I don't, it's something that I've been having conversations with leftists a lot recently or like, you know, post leftist, however you wanna describe yourself in that there's like this, oh, I don't like kids, keep them away from me.
And it's like, that's not the answer either, babe. Like, there's gotta be a more like
[01:14:48] Nicole: right.
[01:14:48] Thickie Comrade: Nuanced answer to this. Right. And I think that at the end of the day, it's just to be able to have conversations with young people and figure out what exactly it is that they're missing in their everyday life that's making them have such adverse reactions to the things around them.
And a, a lot of the times it's probably something that you can't do anything to change. Mm-hmm. A lot of these things are so hierarchical above your power as a one singular person.
[01:15:13] Nicole: Right.
[01:15:15] Thickie Comrade: Being, giving them the space to be able to voice in a way that's like completely void of, uh, judgment is just going to be so.
Vital to their livelihoods. Mm-hmm. I mean, really. So yeah, I think we just need to start listening to children and talking with them and figuring out what it is that they need and giving them space to be able to vocalize what it is we need.
[01:15:39] Nicole: Totally. Yeah. Coming back to that community, right? Yeah. Having intergenerational relationships and seeing that as an important part of it.
Right.
[01:15:47] Thickie Comrade: Totally.
[01:15:47] Nicole: And just, yeah, the importance of respect, the power dynamics there and, and again, like you said earlier, like we're planting the seeds for those trees and the shade Yeah. Of of those future generations. And so Totally to move through the world with connection to the younger generations. Not to just be in the silo of all your like adult friends, but like Exactly what does it mean to stretch across and have those, even just pure perspective folks, like Exactly.
So, yeah. Totally.
[01:16:12] Thickie Comrade: Yeah.
[01:16:13] Nicole: Well, I really appreciate you. Yeah. And if it feels good, we can move towards that closing question.
[01:16:18] Thickie Comrade: Sounds great to me.
[01:16:19] Nicole: Okay. So then the last question I ask every guest is. What is one thing that you wish other people knew was more normal?
[01:16:30] Thickie Comrade: Last question. That was stumping me. Um, yeah, so the, the thing that I think I wish people knew was more normal would probably have to be the feeling that you have where you're told that the unconditional love from your family is supposed to be something that you're just supposed to have is not normal.
Actually, that feeling that you have of like, why is it that like I'm being told that I'm supposed to unconditionally love my dad, but he continues to use these slurs with me. How like that I, I don't feel unconditional love for this person. Yeah. And that's, that is normal. You, you're not supposed to feel an unconditional love to the people around you that are making you feel like shit on a daily basis.
And a lot of cases that is the people in your family. And that is unfortunately a lot more normal than I think a lot of people are willing to admit to themselves.
[01:17:36] Nicole: Totally. I think it's really difficult to hear that a lot of people's most abusive relationships are their families. Right.
[01:17:42] Thickie Comrade: Totally.
[01:17:43] Nicole: And just maybe then we wanna normalize like chosen family.
[01:17:47] Thickie Comrade: Yeah. You know, I, I find. The chosen family archetype to be something that I've been kind of struggling with in my own mind of like, there is also sort of like a, um, discrimination that comes with the idea of chosen family. You know, you're still choosing who it is that is around you and like, obviously Yeah.
Like you should not probably involve yourself with like Nazis. Like that's probably a good boundary to have. But at, at the same time, again, I'm gonna forget now who it was that you had the conversation with, but I'm remembering the conversation that you had where there was sort of like a, uh, the conversation was about, um, sexual abusers being brought back into the fold of community and like holding that, like that space for like accountability and like Yeah.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, we're still gonna have to like. Come up with solutions and have answers to these things of like, these people who have wronged us and still have space for them to be able to live like that. That is a very complicated, um
[01:19:03] Nicole: mm-hmm.
[01:19:03] Thickie Comrade: Nuanced thing that I, I don't, I personally don't have an answer for, but it is something that when I start to think about chosen family, it, it does sort of start to make me feel, um, a little worried that, you know, there's going to be still like this.
Like, I'll, I'll allow you in, but not you. Right. It's like I, there is something I, I don't know, maybe I hear you too picky about it, but like, it, it does make me feel a little. Trepidatious maybe.
[01:19:30] Nicole: Yeah, totally. I think it's like when people call out this question as the normalizing of like, no, like nothing should like, like that's a statistical, you know, category.
We don't wanna, let's get away from the normal where I'm like, yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah. So I hear you in terms of like the chosen family, right? And I think what I'm hearing is the nuance of what does restorative justice look like for a deeper community connection? Totally. Totally. So we wanna normalize like our interconnectedness with boundaries, right?
Like and what does look, and you're right, I don't know what that looks like. I'll keep reading the anarchist text, you know? Exactly. Conversation and. I'll die and the future people will pick that one up because I'm gonna do my best at it. But, uh, I'm just human.
[01:20:15] Thickie Comrade: I, I really think that the answer is to be found in conversations like these Yeah.
Not necessarily in the texts for me anyway, because like, I don't know, I can read these things a thousand times over and I'll be like, that sounds fucking great. I'm super on board. And then I go out and do it and, and I try to like bring it into my every day and try and do it and enact that. And I'm like, this is really hard to do by myself.
Totally. And I would really love to have somebody that's like community in my corner that I can have conversations with about this. And we can like, figure out these answers together because like, yeah, there's not gonna be a one answer fix all for any of these problems. Like, we're going to have to have conversations like this.
And so the only answer is gonna be from having conversations with each other about these things.
[01:20:58] Nicole: Yeah. That's some anarchy pulled back to the community. Let's figure it out.
[01:21:02] Thickie Comrade: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oh, it all comes back.
[01:21:05] Nicole: It's such a joy. Yeah. It was such a joy to have you on the podcast today. Oh my God. Thank you for joining us.
[01:21:10] Thickie Comrade: It's such an honor. Thank you so much. Yeah. I really appreciate this. Mm-hmm.
[01:21:13] Nicole: Well then where can listeners find you if they wanna connect with you and your world?
[01:21:19] Thickie Comrade: Yeah, so I am thickie comrade on just about every social media. I have my YouTube channel. I have two videos up right now. Not anything like, you know, super glamorous or anything, but they're like little dabbles and little experiments into trying to have conversations with people.
So I've been working on a really long-term project now for like, the last, like, seven months, and I'm hoping that I'll have a video out soon about that. Cool. But like, I, it's, it's a really long, um, like media analysis with involving like young people in the internet and, uh, it's becoming way more complicated than initially thought.
So it's become like a, you know, a journey. So that YouTube is probably the best place to look for me for that. Cool. Um, every other platform I have, like varying content. Instagram is all my knitted pro, my knitting projects that I do. Cool. And then Twitter is just your stereotypical shit posting. Oh, it's become just like.
Twitter's kind of dead, so it's just kind of like playing around on the, the, the playground where nobody else goes to anymore. So I dunno, it's still kind of fun. But yeah, thinky, comrade is where I'm at. Uh, yeah.
[01:22:29] Nicole: Great. I'll have all of that link below. And again, I just wanna thank you for coming onto the show today.
[01:22:34] Thickie Comrade: Thank you so much for having me in this conversation.
[01:22:38] Nicole: If you enjoy today's episode, then leave us a five star review wherever you listen to your podcast, and head on over to modern anarchy podcast.com to get resources and learn more about all the things we talked about on today's episode. I wanna thank you for tuning in and I will see you all next week.
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